Decision on which method for dual element mod

[LiteFiter]

I know this has been probably beat to death, but this is my year to install the dual element mod.  I can't get to my smoker thanks to the many feet of snow still between me and my shed, so all my references are strictly from the mod pictures posted by Mr. Walleye.  I was set to go with this but I noticed that some have mentioned a mod of piggy-backing (assuming jumping) from old to new element.  If correct, any advantage or is it just just another way?  Plus, in Mr. Walleye's post, he referenced "10 feet" of 14ga in the parts list.  Is this true, seems like a lot.   Lastly, I don't quite understand the purpose of the notch he refers to when preparing the ceramic cap.  Can anyone clarify?  Not being actually able to see it puts me at a disadvantage, probably be another 3 weeks before I am able to get to the smoker, want all the pieces ready to install ASAP.  I am no electrician, I don't want to screw this up, my wife loves this thing and will kill me. P.S., I am a weekend smoker, basically ribs, brisket, shoulders, and butts, nothing fancy, any advantage to buying the Aubrey 2 probe over the single?  It is not much different in price but $40 bucks is 40 Bucks.  Thanks for your help, Jon

[TedEbear]

Hi.  I'm one of the ones who made the piggy-back loop popular.  When I first studied the way Mr. Walleye had done it I didn't see any reason why someone couldn't just take a couple of short 3-4" loops of high temp wire and connect each end of the second element to each end of the original.  It all connects up to the plug on the back of the tower anyway, and that has an 18ga power cord running between the tower and SG.

Some people wired theirs to have an on/off switch for the second element.  Again, it is not something I would ever have any use for.  If one or the other elements failed in the middle of the smoke session the other one would take over 100% of the duty.  Certainly no need for 10'  :o of high temp wire.

Someone said a switch can be useful if the PID controller fails.  Well, there are several things that can fail in my Bradley.  If my SG failed in the middle of a cook I'd be SOL.  I guess I'm taking a chance on the PID not failing but I've never heard of a built-in PID controller like the one I have in my SG failing.  I'd just finish cooking whatever it was in the oven that day and order a new PID - no big deal.

Speaking of which, you didn't mention adding a PID controller.  It's a good idea to have one if you're adding a second element.  They say the original controls are not designed to handle the higher current can could lead to a fire.  There haven't been any reports of this happening but it could. 

There's a cheap way to use the original temp control without adding a PID and not risk a fire.  It involves adding an SSR and using the original Bradley control to toggle on/off the SSR.  The cost would be around $15 for the SSR. I can go into more detail if you're interested.

[hutcho]

I also did mine the way tedebear did his.   Really simple and didnt take long either. Was gonna post pics but cant find it now. :/

Sent from my Samsung Galaxy Note 2

[beefmann]

if your  looking for a simple mod,, this is it

[Mr Walleye]

Hi Litefiter and welcome to the forum.

I don't think there is a right way or a wrong way to do the mod. It's more a how and where you use your smoker as well as what your comfort margin is as far as safety is as well.

The notch in the ceramic cap is simply to allow the wire through to the second element.

When I first came up with the idea of running two elements safety was my number one priority because I do use my smoker inside my heated detached garage. This is the main reason why I ran the wires back to the plug on the back of the smoker. There are a lot of things that influence wiring capacity but generally speaking as far as I know wire size/capacity are: 18 AWG is rated at 10 amps, 16 AWG is rated at 13 amps and 14 AWG is rated at 15 amps. Also as I understand it you should always use the 80% rule which basically means to only design a circuit to use 80% of it's capacity. So, that would make the 18 AWG at 8 amps, the 16 AWG at 10 amps and the 14 AWG at 12 amps. The dual elements run approximately 8.33 amps so using the daisy chain method is certainly close to the maximum if not at it. Although having said all that I have never heard of anyone having problems with the daisy chain method either. My main point was I built this mod for my installation which included being inside a heated detached garage and safety was paramount.

You guys are probably correct in not needing 10 feet of wire especially if you are simply jumping the second element from the first. Certainly if your using the daisy chain method you would only need 8 inches. However if you wire it to the back plug and install the switch for the second element you will probably use at least 5 or 6 feet. When I'm doing a project I typically estimate high so I'm not running back and forth trying to round up parts.

I certainly wouldn't discount the switch idea for the second element as it has turned out to be useful for a number of reasons. Some people use their smoker in a number of different locations and for different purposes and they may not want to use the PID with it some of the time. For the price of a $3 switch and a little wire this option is always open to you providing you are using a separate PID. In TedEbear's setup he has his PID installed in the smoke generator so it realistically wouldn't be possible to run the Smoker in a factory setup at the flip of a switch or at least not without some additional wiring. 

The daisy chain method of wiring the second element is also running the power for both elements through the high temperature fuse (DBS) or the high temperature fuse, the thermal cut-off  and the slide control unless bypassed (OBS). I'm not sure this is good or bad just something to note.

TedEbear is right in the fact I really haven't had many problems with any of the Auber components. I have probably purchased 12 or 14 different PID's from them and I haven't had one fail yet. I have had one SSR fail and fortunately it failed in the open position.

The bottom line here is there are various people here who use there smokers for various purposes and in various locations, some of which have used various methods to accomplish the goal of having more accurate temperature and faster temperature recoveries. None of them are perfect and none of them fit everyone's ideals.

In fact there are lots of people who use the smoker stock and have no idea why us tinkerers would even consider making changes to what they view as perfection.  :o ;D

Mike

[tskeeter]

TedEbear's daisy chain approach is the easiest.  It can be done without removing the back panel from the smoker.

Mr. Walleye's approach minimizes the risk of overloading the stock wiring.

If I was doing the dual element mod to my six rack again, I think I'd do a combination of the two approaches.  Daisy chain the heating elements, but replace the cabinet wiring from the plug to the original heating element with heavier wire.  And, I'd crimp some connectors into the wire between the plug and the first element to allow the high temp circuit to be plugged into the power feed to the original element.  That way both elements are controlled by the high temp circuit.

This approach also makes diagnostics easier.  If both elements go out at the same time, most likely the high temp circuit.  If only one element goes out, probably an element failure.

[Habanero Smoker]

Determine which setup is the one that fix your needs the most.

I find the switch useful for a few things, lowest on the list is if the controller (PID) malfunctions. I use either my BBQ Guru DigiQ II or Stoker Wi-Fi to control my cabinet temperatures, and there are several times I find myself smoking/cooking something that doesn't require both elements or a need to hookup my temperature controller. In the past year or so, I've learned that if I want to maintain hot smoking temperatures (100 - 180°F) one element works better then two with the type of controllers I am using, and the preferred element is to have my front one on.

[TedEbear]

When I first came up with the idea of running two elements safety was my number one priority because I do use my smoker inside my heated detached garage. This is the main reason why I ran the wires back to the plug on the back of the smoker. There are a lot of things that influence wiring capacity but generally speaking as far as I know wire size/capacity are: 18 AWG is rated at 10 amps, 16 AWG is rated at 13 amps and 14 AWG is rated at 15 amps. Also as I understand it you should always use the 80% rule which basically means to only design a circuit to use 80% of it's capacity. So, that would make the 18 AWG at 8 amps, the 16 AWG at 10 amps and the 14 AWG at 12 amps. The dual elements run approximately 8.33 amps so using the daisy chain method is certainly close to the maximum if not at it. Although having said all that I have never heard of anyone having problems with the daisy chain method either. My main point was I built this mod for my installation which included being inside a heated detached garage and safety was paramount.

You have to take into account that even if you run a set of wires from each element to the plug on the back of the chamber, the power cord between the SG and the tower is only 18ga and also the main power cord from the wall outlet to the SG is only 18ga.  Look at what's stamped on the insulation on each cord.  That's why I didn't see any reason to run two sets of wires back to the plug since a chain is only as strong as its weakest link.

[Mr Walleye]

When I first came up with the idea of running two elements safety was my number one priority because I do use my smoker inside my heated detached garage. This is the main reason why I ran the wires back to the plug on the back of the smoker. There are a lot of things that influence wiring capacity but generally speaking as far as I know wire size/capacity are: 18 AWG is rated at 10 amps, 16 AWG is rated at 13 amps and 14 AWG is rated at 15 amps. Also as I understand it you should always use the 80% rule which basically means to only design a circuit to use 80% of it's capacity. So, that would make the 18 AWG at 8 amps, the 16 AWG at 10 amps and the 14 AWG at 12 amps. The dual elements run approximately 8.33 amps so using the daisy chain method is certainly close to the maximum if not at it. Although having said all that I have never heard of anyone having problems with the daisy chain method either. My main point was I built this mod for my installation which included being inside a heated detached garage and safety was paramount.

You have to take into account that even if you run a set of wires from each element to the plug on the back of the chamber, the power cord between the SG and the tower is only 18ga and also the main power cord from the wall outlet to the SG is only 18ga.  Look at what's stamped on the insulation on each cord.  That's why I didn't see any reason to run two sets of wires back to the plug since a chain is only as strong as its weakest link.

Ted

I don't use the factory plug between the smoke generator and the tower. Most people wouldn't unless they have the PID installed in the smoke generator. I use a 16 gauge power wire that runs from the PID to the cabinet. The smoke generator is powered on it's own.

Mike

[DetroitSmoke]

I went with a 1,2 or none element switch.  This gives me more options and was easy to do once everything was opened up.  I can select 1 element and still use the factory slider or use 2 elements with my 2 probe Auber.  When cold smoking I just put the switch to the center to shut them both down.  I also added a fan switch so when I open the cabinet I dont blow out all the smoke.