New to smoking

[dan_david]

New to smoking will try to make this question simple.  4 rack smoker tried new pheasant recipe which called to smoke for 4 hrs until internal temp of 165.  I had 2 of the birds make it to 165 but the rest seemed to stall out at about 158.  Since the birds looked cooked but never made it to an internal temp of 165 is there a risk of bacteria and them not being OK to eat.  I saw some articles on temps stalling out but how do you really prevent this.  I was afraid of continuing to cook the meat since it might really dry out but I also felt I needed to get the internal temp to 165 so it was safe to eat.  Should I dispose of the birds since they never got to an internal temp of 165.....I have more to try again.  Thanks for any info you can share!!

[Habanero Smoker]

Hi dan_david;

Welcome to the forum.

I always go by intermal meat temperature not time. The USDA recommends that you bring the internal temperature to at least 165°F to eliminate any possibility of food poisoning from poultry. Seeing that they reached 158°F, after the chickens rest that should add another 5°F; so they should be safe to consume. After cutting, dab a white paper towel against the meat near the joints and/or bones. If you don't see any red juices on the paper towel, and it is clear the meat is done  If you see some red that means the meat wasn't fully cooked. Don't go by color of the meat alone. Today's chicken can still show some redness in color; especially near the bone and joins. Where were you checking the temperatures?

How many chickens were you smoking at one time, and what size were they. Poultry with skin gives off a lot of moisture, and this can keep the cabinet temperature far below the set temperature. Try not to overload your smoker with too many chickens at one time. Keep your vent wide open to allow as much moisture to escape as possible. If the chickens are not cooking as fast as you need them too, you can always transfer them to an preheated oven to finish cooking.

There is a slight stall in poultry at around 140°F, but this stall is very short in time. The type of stall you are referring to applies to meats with tough connective tissue; such as brisket, butts, ribs etc.

[dan_david]

Thanks for your response.  I appreciate the comments about cutting open the meat and checking with a piece of paper towel, I will try that next time.  As for some of your questions, I was checking the temps in the thickest part of the breast trying to stay in the middle of the meat and not to close to the bone.  One thing that is different here is that I was smoking wild pheasant which I would think would be similar to doing chickens except there is no skin on the pheasant.  I injected them with an Excliber/Walton's brand butter flavored seasoning and then rubbed them down with some cajun seasoning.  It called for cooking at 225 until internal temp was 165 and smoke for 4hrs. 

I tried to do 8 pheasants (2 per rack) but pheasants are not as large as some chicken breasts or whole chickens.....you can easily put a full pheasant brest (bone in) in your hand.  I did not have the vent at the top of the smoker wide open, is that recommended for poultry and other meats?

If you do see a stall in poultry or other meats like ribs, brisket do you recommend leaving them in the smoker until desired temp is reached or always transferring to an oven to finish off.

One thing I believe i did wrong and why I think I'm going to do this over again is that I set the temperature on the smoker at 230 (I don't have 5 degree increments so I went higher than lower) but the actual temperature didn't get into the 200's until later in the smoking process.  I'm going to pre-heat again but turn the temp setting higher in order to get the internal temp to 220/230 sooner and do a better job of maintaining that temp.

Lastly, the water bowl that catches the burnt wood Bisquettes for the Bradley smoker ran out of water sometime during this cooking process.  Would this have any effect on how the cooking/smoking process went?

Appreciate all the information you have provided and THANKS for helping out a beginner.....

[Habanero Smoker]

Pheasants are different from commercially grown chickens. Chickens are harvested at a much younger age, these days. That seems to cause the chicken's meat to have a redness/pinkness color. I don't have much experience with pheasant, but I don't believe the paper towel test will work. Pheasant is much leaner, and tend to dry out, if you follow a standard chicken recipe; so it is good that you injected. You will see a lot of smoke pheasant recipes that wrap the pheasant in bacon, but my personal feeling is that overpowers the flavor of the pheasant. I have a nephew-in-law who is from Ireland, and he is an advid hunter. He smokes his pheasant until the breast reaches an internal temperature of 150, but USDA recommendations state 165°F.

Did you apply smoke the full four hours, or was four hours the total smoke and cook time? For poultry usually 1:40 - 3:00 hours is enough smoke, then continue to cook until done. For poultry I usually use 2:00 - 2:40 hours of a fruit type of bisquette.

The amount of pheasants you loaded in the smoker is not that much. Unless it is chicken with skin, I usually use a vent opening of 1/2 to 3/4 close. I generally will start with the vent 1/2 closed. Chicken skin contains a lot of moisture, and that moisture is released fast, quickly filling the cabinet with moisture. The pheasant would not produce that much moisture.

In poultry where the stall is around 140°F, you will hardly notice it, unless you have a temperature probe device that can graph the entire cook. This stall can last for about 15 - 30 minutes; depending on the cabinet temperature you are cooking at. For poultry, at 158°F, that wasn't what would be considered a typical stall. Something else was preventing the internal temperature from rising. For poultry and other meats that are not considered tough cuts, it your choice. If you are running short of time, moving them to the kitchen oven works well. For ribs, brisket and butts, it is also your choice. These meats have a lot of fat and connective tissue, so leaving them in the smoker the full cook will be alright. Wrapping them in foil after they reach a temperature of 160°F, will speedup the cooking process. Or you can move them to the oven. One thing about smoking chicken with skin; is that the skin will take on a "rubbery" texture. When the chicken gets within 5°-10°F of being done many of us finish by transferring to a grill or an oven preheated to high heat to crisp up the skin,

Preheating the cabinet 15 - 20°F higher than what you want to cook at is a good idea. Once you load your cabinet, you will loose a lot of heat. Also avoid opening the cabinet door to often during the smoke/cook.

The only effect water in the bowl may have during the cooking process, would be to add more moisture to the cabinet. Its main function is to extinguish the bisquettes, and for safety. For pheasant it not a big deal that the bowl dried out. According to Bradley it is best to extinguish those bisquettes as soon as possible to get the best smoke flavor. If you are smoking meats with more fat (that includes chickens) you want to make sure that bowl has water in it. That is mainly to prevent a grease fire. Bradley recommends you change the water in the water bowl every three hours. When smoking fatty foods such as brisket and butts, the water bowl may look full, but most of what is in the bowl will be fat. So that is why it is important to change that water in the bowl, even if it looks full.

[manxman]

Hi dan_david and welcome to the forum.

Habs has got you pretty much sorted and the only thing I would add is that I cook my pheasant to 150F/65C internal based on information adapted from the UK Food Safety Agency which can be summarised:

"How time and temperature kill bacteria. During cooking, heat energy transfers into and breaks down proteins in the food. The meat changes colour from pink to brown or to white. Its texture changes too. Cooking also causes the proteins in bacteria to break up so they no longer function and the bacteria die. This is why cooking removes the risk from harmful bacteria that are in some food.

Bacteria usually grow in the 'Danger Zone' between 46F/8C and 140F/60°C. Below 46F/8C, growth is stopped or significantly slowed down. Above 140F/60C the bacteria start to die. Time and temperature are both important because proteins need to be heated up for a long enough time for them all to be broken down.

Standard advice is to cook the relevant food (turkey, chicken, duck, goose, pork, ground meat etc) until it has reached 158F/70C and stayed at that temperature for 2 minutes.

The other time and temperature combinations are:

140F/60C for 45 minutes
150F/65C for 10 minutes
158F/70C for 2 minutes
167F/75C for 30 seconds
176F/80C for 6 seconds"

Government agencies also perhaps err on the side of caution which is understandable but particularly if you know where in this case the pheasant has come from, when it was killed and how it was stored it does allow for a degree of flexibility albeit it on your own head!  :) Therefore when I cook a pheasant to 150F/65C I do ensure it stays at that temperature for around 10 minutes.

[Habanero Smoker]

Great information Manxman.

[dan_david]

Habs / Manxman:
I can't thank you enough for the info, this was extremely helpful and I'm going to try this recipe again.  I have some extra pheasants but this time I'm going to pre-heat again but increase the temp setting so the actual temp holds more steadily at the 220/230 range. 

Habs, I did use an apple bisquette and applied 4 hrs of smoke.  the two birds that made it to 165 did taste pretty good but I'll try your recommendation of 1-3 hours (maybe split the difference and do 2) and I'll leave the top damper closed about 1/2 way.

For this first batch since they did get to an internal temp of 158 for more than 2 minutes according to Manxman's chart they are probably safe to eat.  However, I will experiment with a new batch and then compare how they turn out. 

Again....great information and help and I appreciate it very much.  Look forward to trying some other wild game and some ribs/brisket. Look forward to further conversations and reading about other posts & recipes

[Edward176]

Greetings and Welcome to the Forum dan_david.

[Habanero Smoker]

Smoke flavor is a personal taste. If four hours of smoke was good to your taste, then four hours is perfectly fine.

After taking the pheasants out of the smoker, remember that the internal temperature will continue to rise several degrees. So your final temperature was closer to 163°F, so you can use that temperature when you refer to Manxman's chart.