Texas Brisket & Pastrami... same smoke?

[johnhardy1]

I have learned from smoking fish and pork that the more the merrier!  Once smoked it all freezes well vacuum packed so why not
just prepare more?!!  However doing two distinctly different briskets together might be too tough?  Ive had trouble finding consistent info on traditional patrami woods etc but most things point to using more milder woods rather than the full taste of mesquite thats so ideal for the texas-style brisket.

I guess Im asking you all for your personal opinions. Personally, how would you do it (or already done it?).  I realize there are some trade-offs/compromises to be made. 

The big part of my question is how are you all doing multiple large cuts like briskets, pork shoulders etc?  How often and how do you rotate them?  Do you keep em close to the top or bottom of the BS etc, etc?

One problem with pastrami seems to me to be how much smoke.  Some Ive read some that speak about 3-5 hrs (like many brisket recipes) though I read something that says that the pastrami Katz' deli in NYC uses 12+ hrs. Of course theyre probably smoking many many briskets at once.

Im thinking of using 2-3 hrs of hickory to start, with the pastrami low in the BS and then switch the brisket to the low spot and go with mesquite for the next 2-3 hrs.  I would think that once the fat is breaking down andis full dripping etc the best place for the pastrami is in the upper shelf.

What are your thoughts? Any and all opinions are greatly appreciated. Thanks.

[Gizmo]

I have used Habanero Smoker's recipe several times with great results.
Around 3 hours of smoke and I have used several flavors of wood.  My first was with Oak.  Have done Apple and Hickory as well.
Smokers that go +12 hours or even days, are way different than the Bradley.  Most here don't use more than 4 hours worth of smoke as they find that it is plenty. 

I use the middle to upper racks most often as I try to stay away from the heating element and the lower back side cooking faster than the rest of the racks.
When I smoke briskets, they are always whole packer in the 12 to 14 lb range.  I split the brisket where the thickness starts to change so each piece will cook more evenly.  I place the larger fattier piece on top and the flat part below.  This allows the fat from the cap to drip down and baste the leaner flat.

I normally don't rotate the racks very often as I usually remove the meat from the smoker after the smoking is complete, and then place the meat in foil and pop it into my house convection oven.

Here is a link to Hab's Pastrami.

http://www.susanminor.org/forums/showthread.php?t=157

[Ka Honu]

I'm cheaper and lazier than Hab so I start out with a chunk of corned beef (I buy a year's worth when it goes on sale the week before St. Patrick's Day - under 50 cents/lb instead of the usual $1.50-2.50).  It's already cured so I don't have to mess with that step.

If anyone wants to give it a try, discard the little packet of seasoning, drain the juice from the package and rinse. Then soak in cool water (in a plastic container or zip top bag in the fridge), no less than overnight or up to 48 hours, changing water at least two or three times (extracts some of the injected solution).  Dry with paper towel and lightly score the fat side with a knife to mark the grain direction, apply rub to all sides. Back to the refrigerator overnight wrapped in plastic. On cooking day, bring to room temperature; re-season all sides with a sprinkle of rub. Then smoke/cook to 165^o IT followed by some FTC time and a day or so in the fridge before slicing paper thin (across the grain).
 
Basic pastrami rub
     2 tablespoons peppercorns
     1/2 tablespoon onion powder
     1 teaspoon paprika
     1/2 tablespoon coriander seeds
     1 teaspoon thyme, dried
     1 teaspoon garlic powder
          (Rough grind the peppercorns and coriander before adding)

[nickld]

Ka Honu that is a very interesting idea, especially since St. Paddy's is coming up soon!   ;)

[Habanero Smoker]

johnhardy1;
Welcome to the forum. Recipes you see that state use smoke for 12 hours, are generally for offset smokers. They apply only few hours of smoke, the continue to cook at a low temperatures using wood or charcoal as fuel

Gizmo has provided a link to my recipe. You also may want to take a look at finishing the pastrami by steaming.

Steamed Pastrami

Using commercial corned beef is alright, but if you want a good tasting pastrami, curing the brisket yourself makes a world of difference.

Here is a wet brine cure (pickle) pastrami recipe, but I prefer a dry cure.
Pastrami

[Caneyscud]

Yep, 12 hours on a stickburner produces some mighty fine bark and some might fine brisket - but - that would be way too much for pastrami.  Usually give it half time uncovered and the other half in foil.  Oh and be sure to do as Ka Huna says - soak the corned beef - and you are not allowed to ask me how I know that that is an important step!  I've made homemade corned beef a couple of times and although I put in more juniper berries, cracked pepper and bay leaves, I did not seem to get that much tastier of a product - at least that is what my wife says - maybe she is used to the store corned beef.

Fifty cents a pound!!!!  I thought living in Hawaii is supposed to be expensive!   ;D

Shakespeare
The Bard of Hot Aire
Threadkiller Extraordinaire'

[Ka Honu]

I thought living in Hawaii is supposed to be expensive!

It usually is with a few exceptions.  Stores generally run specials at rock-bottom prices on turkey just before Thanksgiving ($5 for a 12-16 pounder, $6 for 16-20) and corned beef and cabbage just before St. Patrick's Day.  My freezer fills up pretty fast; I had to fry a turkey the other day to make room for corned beef next week.

[johnhardy1]

Im afraid I dont have much experience with brisket in the BS. Of course Im in NC and to us BBQ is pork shoulder.  Ive done a couple shoulders and several boston butts in the BS so far. I've found I dont get enough smokiness in the pork with only 3hrs...the last 3 butts ive done all had 8hrs of hickory and were perfect!  However, with that said, I have been thinking of dropping that down to 6 or even 5 hrs of hickory.  At $1/hr for smoke it would make economical sense as well.

Of course we're talking bout brisket here and will certainly mind your advice. I guess the 1-1&1/2 hrs of smoke per pound rule-of-thumb doesnt apply to brisket eh?

Can someone expound on where they would place these two briskets in the BS and when/how they would rotate them?  I was thinking it might be best to have the pastrami-ed brisket on top dripping onto the texas style but maybe it doesnt really matter???
And regardless of what kind of meat it is, how/when do you all rotate them....every 2 hrs...3hrs...4hrs??
Or maybe you dont at all? It would seem to me that the bottom one would get a lot more "done" than the top one. So, I figure you all have the experience so why not ask?

Also, with the butts and whole shoulders Ive done I always FTC by wrapping tightly in foil after adding apple juice or dip etc.  I see with brisket a lot of folks like to put them into covered foil pan with a little apple juice and "boat" them.  Does this make any real difference or is it just personal preference?

Thanks for all the help.  More wood will be here this week and I will need to get the pastrami cure going soon if I want to smoke this weekend!

-John

PS

Gizmo, thanks I skimmed over your suggestion about positioning in the BS.  I will heed your advice.
1 more Question: How long do you all keep your briskets in the oven before FTC'ing?  Do you wrap up the temp probe as well and aim for a certain temp?

[Habanero Smoker]

When I am using the Bradley smoker I apply four hours of smoke to brisket, and 2-3 hours of smoke on my pastrami, but now lean closer to 2 hours. I tend to use oak, and at times will throw in some apple.

My preference would be to place the pastrami on top, so that any rub that you applied to the uncured brisket will not interfere with the pastrami flavor, but the brisket on the bottom will pick up some of the flavoring of the pastrami. If you are only applying salt and pepper to the uncured brisket then it would be best to place that on top.

Because the pastrami is going to be done much faster then the brisket, I wouldn't bother rotating from top to bottom, but rotate front to back. When you would rotate is often a your personal preference. For brisket I will rotate every four hours, and then there are times I don't rotate at all.

I have never boated a brisket, but many have. I also don't FTC. I will loosely wrap in foil add a splash of beef broth or apple juice and seal; letting it rest for about an hour.

[Gizmo]

1 more Question: How long do you all keep your briskets in the oven before FTC'ing?  Do you wrap up the temp probe as well and aim for a certain temp?

Yes, that is exactly what I do.  I actually use a foil pan with a little Apple Juice or Jack Daniels in the bottom just to start it off.  I take mine to 185 deg.  Time varies on the size of the brisket pieces and how much fat is inside.