Brine vs Injector

Shawn_In_Training · February 03, 2005, 03:12:29 AM

I would like to get some options on brine vs. injection. I have never brined, but has had a Cajun injector for a few years and have used on with whole chickens in the BS and lots of meats on the grill. I have made a few of my own injector sauces, but I have to admit that the off-the-shelf Cajun Injector sauces are pretty good.

As I understand it, brining gets moisture and flavor into the meat through osmosis (or something technical that means is soaks in). Injectors also get moisture and flavor into the meat. How about some options/pros-cons for both methods.

I know the experts are here – can't wait to hear the recommendations!

Shawn

Always trying to improve my technique

nsxbill · February 03, 2005, 04:56:19 AM

No expert here, but have injected meat (and people). Use a shower head type needle to avoid pockets of your marinade. I am an RN, and we have a technique for injecting patients with viscous medicine (don't have for pts, but do have for meat). You select a site for injection and pull down on skin, insert needle then after you have what you want in the location, extract needle and allow skin go back into original location. Less leakage is the result. When using as injection for flavor, remember to use lots of locations in the heavy portion of meat and spread it around.

Bill

Cold Smoke · February 03, 2005, 05:11:28 AM

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Stomach feels weird, colors fading...feeling woozie...goodni...

Cold Smoke

jaeger · February 03, 2005, 05:32:52 AM

Shawn,
No expert here but I'll take a stab at this.
Brining is in reference to using a cure mixture. This cure mixtures main ingredients are sugar, salt and sodium nitrite. This cure mixture when mixed with water is now what you would call a brine. After brining and smoking said item you now have a cured product. This curing process is also a preservative. You will get a longer "shelf life" through this process. It also adds flavor with the use of the the salt and sugar.
An item to marinate can be injected with a flavor of choice ie: cajun, butter garlic etc... It can also be soaked in a marinade to achieve a distinct flavor according to the flavor of the marinade that you use.

Brining and marinading can both incorporate injecting and or soaking but with the brine you are curing or preserving the meat.

One example. If you take a fresh ham with no cure and just marinate it by injecting and soaking, it will look more like the color of a roast when it is done cooking/smoking.
If you take this same fresh ham and cure it with a brine, it will have the pink color like you expect to see with a traditional ham. The nitrite in the cure is what gives the meat this pink color.

Hope this answers your question. If not let me know!!![:)][:D][:)]

Doug

Habanero Smoker · February 03, 2005, 11:44:14 AM

I can give you a partial answer. There are many others on this board, as you see, that can expand on this.

Osmosis is the movement of water molecules from an area of high concentration (salts/sugars) to an area of low concentration (salts/sugars). You do not always have to submerge the meat in brine for osmosis to occur. Brines can be injected into the meat (as you do with injection sauces) for osmosis to begin. Injections speeds up the process.

I don't know that much about injections sauces, but those that I seen have a high concentration of salt, and contain an acid. They are basically marinades with a high salt content. Marinades penetrate vary slowly, and rarely go further than 1/4", injecting them into large pieces of meat ensures that the marinade gets to the deepest parts of the meat. Also because of their high salt content, they also have some characteristics of brining.

Although brining disrupts the structure of the protein molecules, it mainly increases the cells capacity to hold water; increasing it's ability to retain moisture during cooking. Marinades act differently. There are two basic marinades acidic and enzymatic. Since most injection sauces are acidic, I will refer to what that does. Acid based marinades denature proteins. They break down amino acids that tightly bind protein molecules. This causes the protein molecules to straighten out. Once straightened this makes the meat tenderer and also moist because the denatured proteins trap water within the tissue. The problem with acids, if you marinade too long, it can actually toughen the meat.

As I stated, I don't know that much about injections sauces, but I have read reports that some don't like to use them because they feel it make poultry meat feel mushy.

MallardWacker · February 03, 2005, 01:44:43 PM

This is just from a Bacon[:p] curing stand point. I use dry rub cure for all my pork, however in my paroozing of this subject it seems that meat over 3 inches thick, it has been said that it needs to injected. I have never had a problem with meat that is close to 4 inches with dry rub. That being said, "I think" (which by itself can cause a problem), maybe this is reserved for the thicker cuts of meat? I know others know alot more than I.

SmokeOn,

mski
Perryville, Arkansas
Wooo-Pig-Soooie

If a man says he knows anything at all, he knows nothing what he aught to know. But...

Chez Bubba · February 04, 2005, 02:05:29 AM

I'll also jump into the "I don't really know too much about it, but here's my $.02".

I've tried injecting birds in the past and it just seems to me that in the finished product, the meat near the injection sites is "mushy" and without much texture.

Then again, I'm a dry rub guy, so maybe I'm either prejudice or ignorant to the proper injection methods.

Kirk

http://www.chezbubba.com
Ya think next time I check into a hotel & they ask "Smoking or Non?" they would mind?

JJC · February 04, 2005, 06:31:22 AM

Hi Shawn,

Lots of good info on this thread for you. Also, Habanero and I put together a Curing and Brining piece that goes into more detail on some aspects of your question. You can find it at Olds' new board:

www.susanminor.org

John
Newton MA