Temperature control

[duncan]

I am having trouble keeping the temperature below 30 degrees C when cold smoking. It's generally heading towards 60 C
Has anybody any advice about air vent/smoke regulation etc?

Duncan

[chefcia]

Remove the smoke generator from the hooks and place it some distance away.  Use some flexible foil dryer vent tubing to direct the cool smoke into the unit.

Also a hunk of ice between the smoke generator can keep the temp down.

[Chez Bubba]

A baking pan full of ice on the bottom smoking rack helps too. Just make sure it doesn't cover the entire surface of the rack so the heat can circulate freely.

http://www.chezbubba.com

[CheapThrills]

Hi all you GREAT people!
I have the temp.control problem down pat. Build a dummy box out of plywood to house the smoke generator. I cold smoked a few batches of salmon with the ice cubes in the water dish. That method only works when the ambient air is below 0. Even at that it is not a very satisfactory way to go. First of all you really have to babysit the whole process. I smoke my salmon for 16 hours. You never have a moment to call your own. It seems every half hour you have to open the smoker to check the temp. and of course you let all the smoke out. It is impossible to keep consistent temperature of 85 degrees it sometimes creeps up to almost 100 which is not a good thing. I think food rots at that temperature. You also have to smoke with the top vent wide open, or it gets to hot inside. Then of course every so often the bisquette advancer fails to push a new bisquette down. So you once again have to open the smoker. By the time 16 hours is up you are so incredibly tired. Plus you go through bags of ice and that also involves opening the smoker to get the melted pan of water out and refill it with new ice, and you have to do this every half hour or so even at -5. Some recipes call for a light smoke for a few hours increasing to a few hours of heavier smoke. With the ice cube method that is impossible.
My husband and myself built a dummy box. It works perfect. I no longer have to open the smoker unless I need to, which is hardly ever. Here are the directions for mine.
Build a box 21"wide by 21"deep by 29"high using 3/8 plywood and 2 by 2s. Screw it together leaving the front open. Make a door to fit the front using 3 hinges and 2 latches.Unless you have perfectly strait plywood, mine is a little bowed here and there so I used lots. On the box where the door is on staple rubber weather stripping. On the left side near the bottom make a hole big enough to pass the cord through. On the same side near the top (centered) cut a 4 inch hole. Get a 4inch rigid dryer vent kit. Tear off the plastic flap thing and huck it. You will now have a metal bracket still attached to the tubing part. From the inside of the box put the dryer tubing through the hole. Then screw the bracket to the box. VOILA!  you have nice secured  tubing. If you think the tubing is sticking out to far you can cut it off to your desired length. Now get a 3 foot piece of flexible foil dryer venting (or any length you want. Slip the flexible tubing over the riged tubing and put a plastic clamp on. Then run the flexible tube into the Bradley, It fits perfect. Oh! this is the best part, I almot forgot! Put the Bradley right on top of the box. It is nice to just walk up to the smoker and have everything at eye level, it is very convenient That's why you put the smoke tranfer tubing on the left side of the dummy box.[:D][:D][8D]

[spyguy]

You have to be careful using wood. With the bisques dropping into the water bowl and creating steam and excess humidity, The wood will get damp grow bacteria. Particularly when you aren't smoking and the damp wood sits in a warm place. Inside the box it would be warm, dark and humid. Ideal breeding place for bacteria. Over time there will be lots of them and different kinds. Bacteria are easily airborne (drawn up the pipe by convection) and placed on the food. If you were hot smoking, they would be cooked along with the food and be harmless. But with raw smoked (brined) salmon there is a risk you want to avoid. I don't know about the rest of you but I try to keep everything as clean as possible from my pails and racks to my smoker itself (wipe it out to remove loose smoke particles). With the addition of possible bacteria you will also reduce the refrigerator life from 2 weeks to a matter of days as these bacteria could multiply quickly.

Lining the inside of the box with aluminum like what they use for making eavestroughs with (aluminum coil)it bends easily and can be cut using a ruler and heavy utility knife and folding on the line. Then sealing the corners with aquarium grade silicone would solve the potential for problems. I would leave a removeable access panel to remove for cleaning (wiping out) the inside occasionally.

The above only applies to cold smoking using a wood box to help cool the smoke.

I personally like the idea of the wood box especially to act as a table to get the smoker to a good working height but primarily to precool the smoke. As to removing the excess heat I am working on a simple heat exchanger using a garden water hose to actually cool the smoke and will post the results with drawings and how to when my tests are complete. (when its warmer outside)This would go into the wood or metal box.

I highly recommend using a temperature probe that comes with a remote (wireless pager). It is made by POLDER. This thing is designed for the BBQ with a probe that goes into the meat and a burnproof 3 foot wire that plugs into the main unit. The wireless range is 125 feet and suits my application well. I hang the probe in through the top vent making sure it is in contact with the air and not the food (accurate readings) and set it at 78 degrees when it reaches temperature, the included pager beeps with the temp on the pager screen. The remote also has an LCD display so you can see temps at a glance. It will even warn you if you are out of range of the signal. Canadian price I paid was $60.00. That was after I destroyed 4 beautiful filets that cost me twice that. since I bought it I have had perfect results. It won't let you forget about your salmon while smoking. I also use it for hot smoking a chicken and stick the probe into the food at its thickest point. When it reaches 160 pager goes...time to eat

My 2 cents worth

Mitch

[SUPERJON]

<blockquote id="quote"><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial, Helvetica" id="quote">quote:<hr height="1" noshade id="quote"><i>Originally posted by CheapThrills</i>
<br />Hi all you GREAT people!
I have the temp.control problem down pat. Build a dummy box out of plywood to house the smoke generator. I cold smoked a few batches of salmon with the ice cubes in the water dish. That method only works when the ambient air is below 0. Even at that it is not a very satisfactory way to go. First of all you really have to babysit the whole process. I smoke my salmon for 16 hours. You never have a moment to call your own. It seems every half hour you have to open the smoker to check the temp. and of course you let all the smoke out. It is impossible to keep consistent temperature of 85 degrees it sometimes creeps up to almost 100 which is not a good thing. I think food rots at that temperature. You also have to smoke with the top vent wide open, or it gets to hot inside. Then of course every so often the bisquette advancer fails to push a new bisquette down. So you once again have to open the smoker. By the time 16 hours is up you are so incredibly tired. Plus you go through bags of ice and that also involves opening the smoker to get the melted pan of water out and refill it with new ice, and you have to do this every half hour or so even at -5. Some recipes call for a light smoke for a few hours increasing to a few hours of heavier smoke. With the ice cube method that is impossible.
My husband and myself built a dummy box. It works perfect. I no longer have to open the smoker unless I need to, which is hardly ever. Here are the directions for mine.
Build a box 21"wide by 21"deep by 29"high using 3/8 plywood and 2 by 2s. Screw it together leaving the front open. Make a door to fit the front using 3 hinges and 2 latches.Unless you have perfectly strait plywood, mine is a little bowed here and there so I used lots. On the box where the door is on staple rubber weather stripping. On the left side near the bottom make a hole big enough to pass the cord through. On the same side near the top (centered) cut a 4 inch hole. Get a 4inch rigid dryer vent kit. Tear off the plastic flap thing and huck it. You will now have a metal bracket still attached to the tubing part. From the inside of the box put the dryer tubing through the hole. Then screw the bracket to the box. VOILA!  you have nice secured  tubing. If you think the tubing is sticking out to far you can cut it off to your desired length. Now get a 3 foot piece of flexible foil dryer venting (or any length you want. Slip the flexible tubing over the riged tubing and put a plastic clamp on. Then run the flexible tube into the Bradley, It fits perfect. Oh! this is the best part, I almot forgot! Put the Bradley right on top of the box. It is nice to just walk up to the smoker and have everything at eye level, it is very convenient That's why you put the smoke tranfer tubing on the left side of the dummy box.[:D][:D][8D]
<hr height="1" noshade id="quote"></blockquote id="quote"></font id="quote">

[CheapThrills]

To the Spyguy
I can't imagain why I would get bacteria growing in the wood dummy box. There is no food in it ever. The box only houses the smoke generator. No food ever touches the box. Did you read the whole letter??? All that the wood box is for is the smoke generator not food! If I were going to hot smoke I would hook the smoke generator onto the Bradley. I really do think you are getting a little carried away with the bacteria thing. But then again perhaps you are a bacteria expert!

[spyguy]

Actually wood is the source of food (its got cellulose, sugars and carbs oh and fiber)and moisture keeps the bacteria alive. I have a microbiologist in the family who is a bug nut (talks about bacteria morning noon and night). he tests Mcdonalds, Wendy's and many others. You don't have to introduce bacteria, They get there in the air, During the manufacture of the plywood or other untreated woods, from your hands when you built it, from the bird that **** nearby it, the mouse that walked on it or by some insect carrying it. Why does wood rot in the presence of water...bacterial breakdown. Most bacteria are harmless to us but some will make you sick.

It is not that critical but with materials readily available, I prefer to indicate what is the right thing to do. take it for what its worth.

Mitch

[Chez Bubba]

I tend to agree with spyguy, although I have no particular knowledge when it comes to smoking food. I do however, have a pretty fair background in homebrewing and know that everything has to be clean, clean, clean.

The advantage in brewing is, it will never make you sick. Might taste like crap, but it will never make you sick.

Smoke & Brew,

Kirk

http://www.chezbubba.com
Ya think next time I check into a hotel & they ask "Smoking or Non?" they would mind?

[Oldman]

I really don't want to jump into the middle of this, but someone correct me if I wrong here. Where not most smokehouses made of wood before the 1900s?

If I understand this posting by CheapThrills he has placed the generator inside a wooden box and then is piping the smoke from it into the smoker. This mean he has to open the box in order to service the generator.

Now I have done many a water restoration jobs on flooded homes over the years--I hold a IICRC cetification in this area--I have a small understanding of what it takes for the spores, that are found on just about everything, to grow into active mod/mildrew. That would require a food source (wood) darkness for the most part, (closed up wood box) and water. For his box to become a breeding ground it would have to sustain dew point for at least 6 if not 8 hours of being wet. As soon as dew point is lost everything dies. As we all know nothing lives without water.

As I said, he has to open this box via the door to service the generator and that action alone would prevent dew point. Next, from what I've seen of pictures (on the net) of this type of smoker they are coated in layer of oily material on the inside. Given the nature of this oily material is from the smoke, and the fact that smoke from wood, in itself, contains polycyclic aromatic hydrocarbons which are known carcinogens I just don't see how anything could grow in his box Dew point withstanding or not.

What does cause me some concern are the glues that are used in plywood. I believe I would have made it out of hard wood. There are plans for building wooden smokehouses. Plywood is a no no!

Now if you really want COLD smoke then go get a mini refigerator. Kind of like this one for $80.00 US. It will serve two purposes. Cool the smoke and keep the suds cold!


EDIT: Given where I live I will most likly have to get a small refigerator.
Olds

[Chez Bubba]

Olds,

Very interesting argument, I look forward to reading a reply from someone who is on the same knowledge level as you. I know nothing about the stuff you're talking but it is fascinating to read. See, you do learn something new every day![:)]

BTW, CT's a chick.[;)]

Kirk

http://www.chezbubba.com
Ya think next time I check into a hotel & they ask "Smoking or Non?" they would mind?

[spyguy]

I agree with the Small refrigerator although it is only capable of removing 50 watts or so of heat and it would still be a struggle with the smoke generator. Although the smoke generator itself is only 100 watts or so there is still the following. Once the wood disk approaches ignition it will generate several hundred watts of heat (without actually igniting). Even though for only a brief time, enough to raise the temp considerably.
Mold is one issue that require some environmental considerations but bacteria require no consideration.

 As for the bacteria. They are capable of living in the harshest environments. living bacteria have been found around volcanic vents at 700 F alive and well with extremely carcinogenic toxic gasses and in the ice below antarctica there for thousands of years thriving.Even pressure treated wood (covered in arsenic and other toxins) can support various bacteria. Your stomach is one of the harshest environment and has no problem supporting bacteria.

I agree the smoke itself acts as a preservative (to some extent)by coating the food (and the inside of the smoker) with the smoke particles that are carcinogenic but the fact that they are carcinogenic does not mean bacteria cannot grow there. (carcinogens do not necesarily always kill cells but can alter them and even mutate them). Smokehouses of the past were indeed made of hardwood but with our knowledge of best preserving food now based on science, why is it any commercial smokehouse is usually kept pretty much sterile clean (as are all racks, trays and utensils)


my 2 cents worth

If anyone knows different please post.

Cheers

Mitch

[Sleepydrakos]

Hi,

I just smoked salmon yesterday while it was above 90 F outside - Hot as ...!  I got the Bradley down to a consistent 69F.  I used a aluminum flexible tube that was mentioned by Spyguy and others.  I also used a cardboard box with a hole for the tube a smoker unit.  I figure a cardboard box is easily a disposable item.  As I was reading, I hope cardboard is not a good candidate for harmful bacteria.  But I am pretty sure it is. 

The Bradley smoker was on the ground while the unit was elevated about 2.5 feet.  Using Spyguy's recipe, gave excellent results.  I just wished I did not use oak wood - too strong.  Also cold smoking for a very small batch, for an hour is too much.  Next time I will limit it to 30-40 min per every 2 lbs.

Also, to verify the temp.  I used a digital chef thermomter that was purchased for $10 - Very accurate.
If in Miami I can get these results, anywhere is fine for cold smoking.

I also used icecubes in a stainless steel bowl, I used three 1L frozen water bottles to ensure a cold atmosphere in the main unit.  Only true problem that I will try to ask on the forum was cutting the finished product.  I used an extremely sharp filet knife.  As I remember when taking meat cutting, you should cut against the grain.  Maybe, I forgot?  Any hints in this area.

[Habanero Smoker]

Only true problem that I will try to ask on the forum was cutting the finished product.  I used an extremely sharp filet knife.  As I remember when taking meat cutting, you should cut against the grain.  Maybe, I forgot?  Any hints in this area.

Generally cutting cooked meat you should cut across the grain. This reduces the length of protien fiber, connective tissue etc, and makes it more tender to chew. For something like lox which you need to slice thin, you want to cut with the grain so that the meat does not fall apart. A slicer works a lot better then a filet knife, but I don't have one either. It's on my wish list.