No smoke flavor....what the heck? HELP

[bbqjourney]

So I seasoned the smoker and did a short hot smoked salmon on another day so here I am with the 3rd use and a 7lb flat brisket.  Did mustard and Angelo's (Ft Worth TX) dry rub the night before and into the fridge.  Took it out at 5am, preheated the smoker to 220 degrees and fired up the smoke unit at 5:50am.  At 6:00am smoke was pouring out and I put the brisket in.  Used 8 Mesquite pucks and 4 Jim Beam pucks, plus the 2 extras for 4 hours of smoke.  Didn't peek in or open the door for the first 4 hours, tons of smoke coming out the top the whole time.  On advise I read here I left the air vent on top 3/4's open the entire time.  Brisket cooked another 7 more hours with the last 2 holding at 185 IT.  Pulled it out, let it sit and sliced away.  The texture was absolutely perfect, thin slices held together, bark was crisp and perfectly seasoned, the brisket was juicy.  Everything was perfect in my mind...except
NO SMOKE FLAVOR
what the heck?

- Should I have put the brisket in cold out of the fridge and allowed more time for the smoke to enter while IT was below 140 degrees?
- Should I have closed the vent more?
- Should I have run more hours of smoke?

I absolutely love this smoker but it's of no use if I'm not tasting smoke in the end product IMO.  Clearly folks are having better luck on this forum than I so I look forward to your advise.  I will say the walls of the smoker and even my meat probe are now covered thinker in that bronze "there was smoke here" color.  Does it just take time for the thing to stop absorbing the smoke on the walls etc and leave some for the meat?  I'm at a loss.  Help

[Caneyscud]

Welcome bbqjourney.

I'm wondering if the smoke flavor is there - you just can't taste it - it is hard to believe - no smoke flavor, especially with the brisket.  Your vent at 3/4 open is perfect - the Bradley generates plenty of smoke.  Yes putting the brisket in colder can help with smoke retention and penetration but not a big deal with the 4 hours of smoking.  I regularly do 6 hours of smoke in the Bradley on a brisket (I like bold smoke flavor) - much longer in my stickburner.  

Three things.  There are times  - particularly with my stickburners that I am in smoke for so long, that my smoke taste is diminished at the end of a cook and the smoke does not predominate in the flavor until somewhat later.  I sometimes have to rely on tasters when that happens.  Try it again, the next day.  Many times meat will taste smokier the next day.  Sometimes just because of the smoke flavor from the bark mixing with the interior meat for a better distribution.  Sometimes because your smoke taste recovers from being assaulted for long periods of aerial smoke pounding your olfactory cells.  Another, was there a good bit of fat on the 7 pounder?  The more fat, the more smoke flavor, and the better distribution of the smoke flavor because of the fat melting.  One last thing, was there salt in the rub.  Salt is important for good smoke flavor.  It absorbs some itself, but it also intensifies what smoke flavoring there is.

One more thing, the mustard thing is not "necessary" on a brisket.  The rub usually sticks on a  brisket pretty well by itself.  Next time try it without the mustard, make sure there is salt and fat present, and maybe maybe smoke a little longer.  And remember Mesquite is the King of Woods!!

[bbqjourney]

Welcome bbqjourney.

I'm wondering if the smoke flavor is there - you just can't taste it - it is hard to believe - no smoke flavor, especially with the brisket.  Your vent at 3/4 open is perfect - the Bradley generates plenty of smoke.  Yes putting the brisket in colder can help with smoke retention and penetration but not a big deal with the 4 hours of smoking.  I regularly do 6 hours of smoke in the Bradley on a brisket (I like bold smoke flavor) - much longer in my stickburner. 

Three things.  There are times  - particularly with my stickburners that I am in smoke for so long, that my smoke taste is diminished at the end of a cook and the smoke does not predominate in the flavor until somewhat later.  I sometimes have to rely on tasters when that happens.  Try it again, the next day.  Many times meat will taste smokier the next day.  Sometimes just because of the smoke flavor from the bark mixing with the interior meat for a better distribution.  Sometimes because your smoke taste recovers from being assaulted for long periods of aerial smoke pounding your olfactory cells.  Another, was there a good bit of fat on the 7 pounder?  The more fat, the more smoke flavor, and the better distribution of the smoke flavor because of the fat melting.  One last thing, was there salt in the rub.  Salt is important for good smoke flavor.  It absorbs some itself, but it also intensifies what smoke flavoring there is.

One more thing, the mustard thing is not "necessary" on a brisket.  The rub usually sticks on a  brisket pretty well by itself.  Next time try it without the mustard, make sure there is salt and fat present, and maybe maybe smoke a little longer.  And remember Mesquite is the King of Woods!!

Thanks for the reply!  I tried it tonight again, it was awesome even reheated, but....still no smoke  :(  .  The first ingredient in the rub I used was salt, but I might try again this weekend with just salt and pepper (Louis Mueller style) and see if the additional salt helps.  I picked a brisket with ton's of fat on the cap and didn't trim it, although most sites recommended trimming it to 1/4" to "let the smoke through", but I personally don't believe it, I've had super smoky brisket at retail shops where the fat cap was very thick, I'm going to continue to leave it on as you recommend and hope it helps keep it juicy.    I'll go with the brisket straight out of the fridge, perhaps not preheat the smoker but get the smoke going again prior to setting it in there, go for 6 hours with straight mesquite and see how it goes.  Thanks again for all the thoughtful info!  I can't wait for the weekend, what a fun hobby, especially with the hands off Bradley.

[Habanero Smoker]

Hi bbqjourney;

Welcome to the forum.

To me it does sound like flavor fatigue which involves the senses of taste and smell. (also called sensory fatigue but that can also involve any of the senses such as hearing, feeling, seeing).

Flavor fatigue is when someone is exposed to a taste or smell for a period of time (length of time can be relatively short), and due to that exposure they will build up a temporary tolerance and are less able to distinguish that particular smell or taste. So by being around the smoker for a lengthy period of time, ones senses could temporarily build up some tolerance. Thus my gas mask. :)

Though temporary it can last for over several hours, and if you have that smell on your clothing it can prolong it. If you do a search on Flavor Fatigue you will find a few posts that go into more detail.

[bbqjourney]

Hi bbqjourney;

Welcome to the forum.

To me it does sound like flavor fatigue which involves the senses of taste and smell. (also called sensory fatigue but that can also involve any of the senses such as hearing, feeling, seeing).

Flavor fatigue is when someone is exposed to a taste or smell for a period of time (length of time can be relatively short), and due to that exposure they will build up a temporary tolerance and are less able to distinguish that particular smell or taste. So by being around the smoker for a lengthy period of time, ones senses could temporarily build up some tolerance. Thus my gas mask. :)

Though temporary it can last for over several hours, and if you have that smell on your clothing it can prolong it. If you do a search on Flavor Fatigue you will find a few posts that go into more detail.

Thanks, as I said it still had no smoke flavor the next day.  I brought some into the office this morning and asked someone else to try it...said it was great, but little if any smoke flavor.  As I posted I'm going to go all the way with Caneyscud recommendations and try everything to get at least some flavor.  I simply can't believe everyone else has great smoke flavor but I can't.  I'll get there one way or another.

[Caneyscud]

BBQjourney,

I am impressed you know about Louis Mueller!  Haven't been able to get by the store for some years now, but I have a 35th High School Reunion coming up in Seguin.  I told my parents and sisters, that among other things  to do - BBQ trip from Luling to Taylor through New Braunfels, Lockhart, Elgin, Austin (shudder) and places I don't know about!  Can't wait. 

The more I think about it, if flavor fatigue is not an issue (glad to finally have a name for it - thanks Habs), then I think maybe the mustard might have something to do with it.  The mustard is to be a very light coating - just enough to get the rub to stick - the meat really shows through.  I've seen some really put it on.  If it is thick, I would say it could really limit smoke penetration and if it falls/melts off during the cooking, It would take the smoke flavor with it.  There are a couple of places around here (Nashville) where you go and get the brisket, and there is no smoke flavor.  I couldn't tell you why their's doesn't have any smoke flavor other than, it doesn't have much bark indicating to me that among other possibilities, it stayed in foil for a long time while on the smoker.   They also hold it under a heat lamp for hours at a time - that may have something to do with it.  If you go to Kreuz's, they hold theirs on a cool (relatively) part of the pit until you order your meal. 

Keep us posted on the next time.  Life is too short to have brisket with no smoke flavor  ;D ;D :'(

[bbqjourney]

BBQjourney,

I am impressed you know about Louis Mueller!  Haven't been able to get by the store for some years now, but I have a 35th High School Reunion coming up in Seguin.  I told my parents and sisters, that among other things  to do - BBQ trip from Luling to Taylor through New Braunfels, Lockhart, Elgin, Austin (shudder) and places I don't know about!  Can't wait. 

The more I think about it, if flavor fatigue is not an issue (glad to finally have a name for it - thanks Habs), then I think maybe the mustard might have something to do with it.  The mustard is to be a very light coating - just enough to get the rub to stick - the meat really shows through.  I've seen some really put it on.  If it is thick, I would say it could really limit smoke penetration and if it falls/melts off during the cooking, It would take the smoke flavor with it.  There are a couple of places around here (Nashville) where you go and get the brisket, and there is no smoke flavor.  I couldn't tell you why their's doesn't have any smoke flavor other than, it doesn't have much bark indicating to me that among other possibilities, it stayed in foil for a long time while on the smoker.   They also hold it under a heat lamp for hours at a time - that may have something to do with it.  If you go to Kreuz's, they hold theirs on a cool (relatively) part of the pit until you order your meal. 

Keep us posted on the next time.  Life is too short to have brisket with no smoke flavor  ;D ;D :'(

Indeed, you must get as much BBQ as you can while you're down there.  I'm in Denver and head out a couple of times a year to on the "BBQJourney" to Austin (Hit Lockhart, Taylor and Elgin no matter what, plus a few new places each time) or KC or Memphis.  If you're in Lockhart be sure to try the relative dive Chisholm Trail, very inexpensive and brisket as good as any others in the area.  I absolutely love the places that pull it out of the cool end of the pit and slice it fresh then throw it back in (Ala Kreuz, Arthur Bryants etc)...No foil, no towel, no cooler!  I avoid all three, it's apparent to me that there's plenty o' fat on a brisket to skip all that.  Guess I've seen it done over and over old school style and will probably spend a lifetime trying to replicate as close as possible.
I like the suggestion, I'm going to skip the mustard and see if I can get the rub to stick well without it, just hope I don't lose the bark...trial and error...this is fun!  Thanks again for the input and enjoy your trip.

[Caneyscud]

BBQjourney,

I am impressed you know about Louis Mueller!  Haven't been able to get by the store for some years now, but I have a 35th High School Reunion coming up in Seguin.  I told my parents and sisters, that among other things  to do - BBQ trip from Luling to Taylor through New Braunfels, Lockhart, Elgin, Austin (shudder) and places I don't know about!  Can't wait.  

The more I think about it, if flavor fatigue is not an issue (glad to finally have a name for it - thanks Habs), then I think maybe the mustard might have something to do with it.  The mustard is to be a very light coating - just enough to get the rub to stick - the meat really shows through.  I've seen some really put it on.  If it is thick, I would say it could really limit smoke penetration and if it falls/melts off during the cooking, It would take the smoke flavor with it.  There are a couple of places around here (Nashville) where you go and get the brisket, and there is no smoke flavor.  I couldn't tell you why their's doesn't have any smoke flavor other than, it doesn't have much bark indicating to me that among other possibilities, it stayed in foil for a long time while on the smoker.   They also hold it under a heat lamp for hours at a time - that may have something to do with it.  If you go to Kreuz's, they hold theirs on a cool (relatively) part of the pit until you order your meal.  

Keep us posted on the next time.  Life is too short to have brisket with no smoke flavor  ;D ;D :'(

Indeed, you must get as much BBQ as you can while you're down there.  I'm in Denver and head out a couple of times a year to on the "BBQJourney" to Austin (Hit Lockhart, Taylor and Elgin no matter what, plus a few new places each time) or KC or Memphis.  If you're in Lockhart be sure to try the relative dive Chisholm Trail, very inexpensive and brisket as good as any others in the area.  I absolutely love the places that pull it out of the cool end of the pit and slice it fresh then throw it back in (Ala Kreuz, Arthur Bryants etc)...No foil, no towel, no cooler!  I avoid all three, it's apparent to me that there's plenty o' fat on a brisket to skip all that.  Guess I've seen it done over and over old school style and will probably spend a lifetime trying to replicate as close as possible.
I like the suggestion, I'm going to skip the mustard and see if I can get the rub to stick well without it, just hope I don't lose the bark...trial and error...this is fun!  Thanks again for the input and enjoy your trip.

Thanks for the tip about Chisholm Trail - haven't noticed that place, but will look it up, probably on the way from the Austin airport.  Kreuz's or sometimes Blacks is always a stop before getting on down to Seguin - that is if our plane gets in at a time that they are open.  I'd like to spend a few hours as a fly overseeing how they do brisket.  They are supposedly with the the hot and fast crowd rather than the low and slow bunch on brisket and clods.  This was confirmed to me by a guy I met in Ocean Springs, Mississippi who said he used to work in the joints in Lockhart.  And his brisket was as good!   I have my ideas of how they do it, but would love to see it done.   If you notice their fire is only on one end!

Haven't been to KC yet, but is on my list to do - just need an excuse other than barbecue to make it past the wife!  Memphis, ehhh!  Maybe, I haven't had it at it's best.  Don't get me wrong, I wouldn't turn away from any bbq I've had there - just not stellar.  Or maybe it is just me - and I'm not a fan of the style.  We have a Corky's 2 blocks from the office, but I never go there except occassionally on Thursday night for all you can eat catfish!  I will say their pork is immensely better than the local chain - by far.  There are a couple of dives around, that do have some good pork BBQ though - even one that has white sauce - particularly like that on turkey!  But we only have one place here that knows how to make brisket.  But no one who has any idea of how to do sausage.  

[Habanero Smoker]

Hi bbqjourney;

Welcome to the forum.

To me it does sound like flavor fatigue which involves the senses of taste and smell. (also called sensory fatigue but that can also involve any of the senses such as hearing, feeling, seeing).

Flavor fatigue is when someone is exposed to a taste or smell for a period of time (length of time can be relatively short), and due to that exposure they will build up a temporary tolerance and are less able to distinguish that particular smell or taste. So by being around the smoker for a lengthy period of time, ones senses could temporarily build up some tolerance. Thus my gas mask. :)

Though temporary it can last for over several hours, and if you have that smell on your clothing it can prolong it. If you do a search on Flavor Fatigue you will find a few posts that go into more detail.

Thanks, as I said it still had no smoke flavor the next day.  I brought some into the office this morning and asked someone else to try it...said it was great, but little if any smoke flavor.  As I posted I'm going to go all the way with Caneyscud recommendations and try everything to get at least some flavor.  I simply can't believe everyone else has great smoke flavor but I can't.  I'll get there one way or another.

I must have misread your posts. It seem to be only a 6 hours difference.

[bbqjourney]

Well I took everything I could out of the equation that might have been a problem and tried again with another brisket.

- Trimmed fat to about 1/4"
- Salt and Pepper rub, no mustard base
- 6 1/2 hours of mesquite
- 12 hour total cook time at 220 degrees.
- Vent 3/4 open (smoke poured out the vent the whole time!)

Results:  Mild if any (I might be wishing smoke flavor into my mouth) smoke flavor.  ARGH!   >:(

I'm out of ideas.  This is madness.  I cooked each of the 3 briskets on the rack using the middle shelf, could it be that it needs to be lower in the box?  I could scream.
Thanks for listening :-)  ... further thoughts/ideas?  anyone?   ???

[NePaSmoKer]

Loose the mustard, mesquite and JB pucks. Use Pecan or Alder, they produce much more smoke.

nepas

[OU812]

Well I took everything I could out of the equation that might have been a problem and tried again with another brisket.

- Trimmed fat to about 1/4"
- Salt and Pepper rub, no mustard base
- 6 1/2 hours of mesquite
- 12 hour total cook time at 220 degrees.
- Vent 3/4 open (smoke poured out the vent the whole time!)

Results:  Mild if any (I might be wishing smoke flavor into my mouth) smoke flavor.  ARGH!   >:(

I'm out of ideas.  This is madness.  I cooked each of the 3 briskets on the rack using the middle shelf, could it be that it needs to be lower in the box?  I could scream.
Thanks for listening :-)  ... further thoughts/ideas?  anyone?   ???

Sounds like the way i do mine but i use 4 hr Pecan and turns out nice and smokie. Does your tongue go kinda numb when eating it? I have found to much smoke does that and you cant taste anything

[bbqjourney]

Well I took everything I could out of the equation that might have been a problem and tried again with another brisket.

- Trimmed fat to about 1/4"
- Salt and Pepper rub, no mustard base
- 6 1/2 hours of mesquite
- 12 hour total cook time at 220 degrees.
- Vent 3/4 open (smoke poured out the vent the whole time!)

Results:  Mild if any (I might be wishing smoke flavor into my mouth) smoke flavor.  ARGH!   >:(

I'm out of ideas.  This is madness.  I cooked each of the 3 briskets on the rack using the middle shelf, could it be that it needs to be lower in the box?  I could scream.
Thanks for listening :-)  ... further thoughts/ideas?  anyone?   ???

Sounds like the way i do mine but i use 4 hr Pecan and turns out nice and smokie. Does your tongue go kinda numb when eating it? I have found to much smoke does that and you cant taste anything

I'll try again with another wood.  I've asked a few neighbors to try it and see if I'm just somehow missing the smoke myself, best I've heard is "I guess it kinda tastes like smoke".  I know I like it very smoky, happy when I burp smoke afterwards, but I'd be happy with at least others being able to say "yep, nice smoke flavor".  I'm going to try the other woods, I'd like to say this thing will work with old school Texas style mesquite, but as this point I'm willing to try another wood just to get some smoke.  Can't say I'll be happy with the purchase if I can't use mesquite, but that's a problem for another day.  Really hoping this doesn't end up on my curb marked "free" and as a $600 mistake.

[Habanero Smoker]

What do the bisquettes look like when they are in the water bowl? How much smoke is coming out of the vent during the smoking period?

The bisquettes should has shrunk in size but retained their shape. If you break them open they should be charred all the way through. If they are not like that, then either your generator is dumping the bisquettes quicker then 20 minutes, or your heating pad is not getting hot enough.

[bbqjourney]

What do the bisquettes look like when they are in the water bowl? How much smoke is coming out of the vent during the smoking period?

The bisquettes should has shrunk in size but retained their shape. If you break them open they should be charred all the way through. If they are not like that, then either your generator is dumping the bisquettes quicker then 20 minutes, or your heating pad is not getting hot enough.

They're charred all the way through.  As I mentioned the smoke is literally pouring out the entire 6 hours.  You can smell it 2 houses down no problem.  I'm wondering if I'm getting up to the temperature that the brisket wont take the smoke anymore, too fast.  I'm running at 220 degrees (no preheat on the temp only preheat for the smoke unit and brisket is straight out of the fridge), and hitting an IT of above 140 degrees in about 3 hours.  Can I safely run it at a lower temperature (say 190 degrees) for the 6 hours of smoke and then kick it up to 230 to complete in time?