More food safety

[psdubl07]

All this talk about food safety reminds me of something I've often wondered about.  
Is any kind of steak tartare or beef carpaccio safe since it is not cooked to proper temp?

Then I came across this recipe on the Bradley site:
http://www.bradleysmoker.com/recipes/collector/beef/mq007.htm

Is eating carpaccio any less of a gamble than steak tartare?  If this recipe is safe to try, can someone explain why since it is not cooked to temp?  Obviously getting good fresh meat is important, but I don't think that in itself makes it safe. [?]

[nsxbill]

I have barely gotten to the point of enjoying medium rare...even in a Fillet Mignon.  Call it what you will...no joy for me eating raw flesh, irregardless of what you put on it.

Bill

<i>There is room on earth for all God's creatures....on my plate next to the mashed potatoes.</i>

[St. Helens Smoker]

Definately not an expert here, but my .02 is that the key is in keeping the pieces "paper thin" as stated in the recipe....and the citrus in the sauce then "chemically cooks" the meat.  Kind of like a ceviche.

[psdubl07]

I would think the small amount of lemon juice in the dressing drizzled on top is not sufficient to cook it.

What would slicing it thin do?  Kind of like the old joke about if you break cookies into bite-size pieces, the calories all escape?  [:D]

[St. Helens Smoker]

<blockquote id="quote"><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial, Helvetica" id="quote">quote:<hr height="1" noshade id="quote">What would slicing it thin do?<hr height="1" noshade id="quote"></blockquote id="quote"></font id="quote">

Well that is the reason why you can get away with carpaccios and ceviches....the thinness of the meat provides surface area that is relatively large versus size...also in there you have olive oil which provides some acidity and then honey which will work as a preservative as well.

I've never used this particular recipe, but with certain ones you can basically watch the meat/fish turn almost as fast as the marinade hits it.

By the way, not really disagreeing with you. And they are things to serve immediatlly....IMHO that is more of a result of the regions these types of dishes seemed to originate.   Hot, humid and not overly "meat" friendly


Forgot to add that Tartare is also "chemically cooked/preserved" as well....not the "raw meat" standard as it is known here in America...

[psdubl07]

Hmm, I thought Ceviche kind of sat in a very citrusy marinade though until it is "cooked"?  Different than drizzling something on top that has a bit of citrus in it.

I've had beef carpaccio at a fine restaurant and it was really good.  Just not sure I want to try it at home...

[3rensho]

In this part of the world we eat steak tartare and beef carpaccio commonly in summer.  In both cases the meat is completely raw and not cooked either chemically with citrus juice or any other manner.  It is very important that the meat be impeccably fresh and chilled.  In the case of steak tartare there is the addition of a raw egg so there is an additional risk of salmonella rearing its ugly head if the product is handled improperly.  I've made both at home and also have it in restaurants and never had a problem.  It's just a matter of handling it properly and using the freshest ingredients.  It's a lot less dicey than self made fugu sushi [:D].

Tom

Smokin' in Switzerland

[manxman]

I think the people who have stressed the importance of the source and handling of the meat have hit the nail on the head, these aspects are of prime importance.

I have a friend who loves his steak "blue", in his words he wipes it's bum then eats it!!!! [:0][:0] He has never had food poisoning from eating steak in this manner.

Now chicken for example may have some inherant bugs that can make you ill (e.g chicken and salmonella) so no-one is suggesting doing the same with such animals but in my experience people who regularly eat almost raw beef have come to no harm.

I personally eat my beef "rare" to "medium rare" (slightly/moderate cooked) but I would not do the same thing with chicken and pork over which I take more care.

(I think the terms for cooked meat, (rare, medium, well done etc.) have different interpretations in the UK and US??)

It also depends on what cut of meat is being considered,i.e where it has come from on the animal.

To some extend you have to "pay your money and take your chance" it is about reducing the odds as much as possible in your favor but still enjoying the food. It is impossible to eliminate all risk.



Manxman.

[3rensho]

Yes, steak bleu is literally cooked 30 seconds on each side and served.  It is delicious with a good cut of meat.  We have another dish that is ground horse meat, nicely seasoned.  It's formed into a loaf about 2" wide, 5" long and 1.5" thick.  Just seared on all six sides to cook it about 1/4" deep and the rest is raw.  Some kind of good [:p]   Also, there is "Zwiebelmettwurst" for breakfast which is fresh (not frozen) ground pork, seasoned and mixed with finally chopped onions.  Served raw and no problems with trichinosis.

Tom

Smokin' in Switzerland

[manxman]

With regards to lemon juice or similar, that will alter the acidity /alkalinity (pH) of the enviroment in which any potential bug is growing.

This means the rate of growth of the bacteria would be altered, in most instances slowed down so it could be regarded at antibacterial but not bacteriacidal. (not kill em!)

Salt is antibacterial because it restricts bacterial growth, bacteria need water to thrive and salt competes with the bacteria for "free" water.

Different mechanism but similar effect to the lemon juice.[:D][:D][:D]





Manxman.

[humpa]

Concerning beef...I just read an article about eating beef that is med rare. It says that most contamination, as rare as it is, is on the surface of the meat that is exposed to air. Generally, cooking a roast or steak, the meat surface temp will go way over 200 deg as it cooks, killing all bacteria. The inside is not likely to have bacteria, because it is not exposed to air or cross contamination. However hamburg is totally exposed and should be well done for consumption. I hope this answers a few questions about cooking beef rare/med rare.[8D]

Ernie....Weymouth, MA

[johnintx1]

I am a USDA food inspector. I inspect meat and/or poultry,every day for over 10 years.
I eat my beef steaks med. rare, but I always fully cook all hamburger meat,fish and chicken. (humpa is correct in his post)

Smoke on!!

[manxman]

Good advice, ground/minced beef is particularly susceptable to a couple of pathogenic bacteria.

Manxman.

[Oldman]

I still eat my MB med-rare. However, I don't use store purchased ground beef for this. I get a whole cryo packed bottom round. Age it. Then I wash the outside real good. Then grind it up. I try to time this as close to when I age my standing rib that has a lip still on it. I will grind the fat in the lip with the bottom round for more flavoring.

I'm sure I still run a chance of getting something, but I believe this lowers that chance greatly.

Olds


http://rminor.com

[psdubl07]

Great point Humpa, I never even thought of that.
I, too, eat my beef med-rare.  I've only got sick from eating beef once, and that was eating my wife's leftovers at a Mexican restaurant.  We were both sick as dogs for 3 days! [xx(]