My Project

[Sailor]

110v

Doing sticks, SS and maybe jerky in it. I know there is going to be a Bradley smoke gen on it. The element just needs to get to 180*

BLSH is on track regarding the Watts per cubic feet.  It is not about keeping the element at 180 degrees it is about how much heat you are able to put into the cabinet and maintain that heat. Perhaps you were meaning maintaining the cabinet temp at 180 degrees and not having an element at 180 degrees.

 Think about putting a small sauce pan on the stove and you turn the stove on to low. You will heat the sauce pan to say 180 degrees at that setting however if you add water you will drop the degrees of the pan and it will take lots of time to bring the water up to 180.  The more water you put in the pan the more heat you need to bring the water up to temp.  Once you bring a pan full of water up to temp it is not going to take as much heat to maintain.  But you will never be able to bring that water up to temp using low temp element.  I am thinking that you need the power and element capable of bringing the temp of the cabinet up and to maintain it. The bigger load you put in the cabinet the more wattage you need in the element.

[NePaSmoKer]

Ok more woodchuck  :D

[classicrockgriller]

Nepas, I finally smoked some sausage in my big smoker and only used one 110 element (1200 watt) to do it.

The load was 10 lbs of 32mm venison sausage and 5 lbs of snack sticks.

I started there and next time will increase the load of sausage till I find the Poundage number that the element will

not handle and I guess that will be my stopping point. I am thinking with a warm (pre-heated cabinet) and sausage

at room temp and starting at a low temp and ramping the sausage in 4 to 5 steps, I should be able to limit out at 40

to 50 lbs in the cabinet. This load was finished in 9 1/2 hrs using :

130* for 1 1/2 hr drying time
140* for 3 hrs applying smoke
150* for 2 hours
160* for 2 hours
170* for 2 hours
175* till done (152*)

I used the power vent to draw out the moisture during the drying stage and I feel comfortable adjusting that time down to

1 hour and possibly down to 45 minutes.

If 15 amps is the max load you want to reach, then subtract the amp usage of the SG and find an element that falls in the range.

[BuyLowSellHigh]

CRG, do you have the approximate dimensions for the interior of that beast? 

[Mr Walleye]

Rick

My thought on a cabinet that size and keeping a load size of 50 to 100 lbs in mind, I think a minimum of 3000 watts. You can use 2 - 1500 watt, 110v elements controlled by a single PID by using 2 separate SSRs that are powered by 2 separate 110v circuits. On my large smoker, which is pretty much identical in size as yours, I'm currently running 220v and 3000 watts. I plan on building another one from scratch but a little larger and I will power it with 6000 watts, 220v.

Mike

[classicrockgriller]

CRG, do you have the approximate dimensions for the interior of that beast? 

Inside dimentions of mine are 59 1/2" tall x 23 1/2" wide x 29" deep.

All the corners top, bottom and side are SS welded. It is tight.

[BuyLowSellHigh]

So 1300 watts + 125 from the SG = 1325.

I calculate ~ 23.5 cu ft, so ~56 watts/cu ft.

As you ramp up it will be good info for how much of a meat load it can handle and keep the times reasonable.

[NePaSmoKer]

I guess i skipped a couple chapters in the book, Electronic heating, controllers, Ohm's and such For Dummies  :D  :D

Thanks Mike for putting it in regular jahmoke terms for me.

[Tenpoint5]

I'm thinking it would be easier to pack all the stuff that I have onto a UPS truck and send it to Mike and have him put it all together and send it back.

[Smokin Soon]

If I needed a big smoker I would just buy this sucker and plug it in!!! My little 5 lb batches just does not need a big boy like that.

http://sfbay.craigslist.org/eby/bfs/2132792116.html

[ronbeaux]

Ok, I'll step in it. Reading through the threads I didn't see any mention of heat retention, such as insulated walls and such. So saying you need such and such watts to get to a certain point might not be as much as you think. My little Bro has a converted warming box made for rolling sheet tray cabinet and can get it to 240 degrees with one 1500 watt element. It is 72x36x36. It's an old Hobart and well built.

The boiling water in a pan example doesn't work because you are loosing heat to the air, put a lid on it and it will stay hotter with much less heat.

My head hurts......

[NePaSmoKer]

Ok lemme re do this

The proofer was from a cafeteria where they ran this at temps to 280* i can go low like 100* As most of you know i dont do sticks and SS above 180*. The element in it pulls 15 amps (just the element) i have no idea what the blower pulls. I'm trying to do this simple (for electronically challenged dummies) and cheap.

The entire proofer is 1 1/8" insulated top, bottom, sides and doors. There is no vent and is a closed unit with heat seal around the doors.
I will be back or side venting this when i get it all going.

I am still listening to everyone opinions and thank you all  ;D

[BuyLowSellHigh]

Rick,  I don't think anyone has a good idea of how much heat power you need beforehand.  I believe you will just have to start and do as CRG is doing to find what works with what you put in it versus what you need.  It may work just fine as it is, or even at lower power for your use.

Being able to hold 240 or 280 degrees with a cooked product or empty isn't a good measure of how hot or fast you will be able to get it versus time with an uncooked product.  Given enough time, it will get up to those temps.  The question in part is how long it will take and is that acceptable to you ?

It's more than just heating the mass.  During the cooking process as the meat temps increase there are conversions that soak up heat (e.g., the classic stall).  As those processes take place every additional Btu flowing in gets soaked up without increasing the temp.  When the conversion is complete then the temp starts up again.  How fast that takes place is largely influenced by how much heat (Btu's) is provided above that needed to maintain the temp where it is.  More heating power just means you can increase the capacity or tolerate more heat loss (ronbeaux's point). You may have enough already, or you may hit a capacity wall that you don't like.  Then it's back to the drawing board.

I think you just need to run the experiments and find out if/where you hit a practical limit.

[Mr Walleye]

Rick

If you have 2 separate 110v circuits you can use, you should be able to run the existing 15A element on one circuit and the blower, PID, etc, on the other circuit.

If the existing element draws 15A then it's approximately a 1650 watt element.

Mike

[NePaSmoKer]

Rick

If you have 2 separate 110v circuits you can use, you should be able to run the existing 15A element on one circuit and the blower, PID, etc, on the other circuit.

If the existing element draws 15A then it's approximately a 1650 watt element.

Mike

I have a 6 slot panel in the garage that has 15 and 20 amp breakers in it. I do run the pool pump, freezer and fridge from it. The winter should not be a problem cuz the pool is not going.

The garage panel is run off the house panel which has no more open slots in it.

I'm thinking put a smoke gen on it, vent and keep everything else like it is, run it and see where it goes.