My first smoke didn't come out as good...

wet coast smoke · September 16, 2005, 04:12:38 PM

When I first started using my BS, I too on two occaisions, had trouble with liquids coming out the bottem of the door
The solution: I cut a narrow piece of board about one eigth to one quarter inch thick and as long as the BS is wide. Installed this strip under the front of the BS to cause it to lean back slightly. (This BTW was earlier recommended by some other kind person on the BS forum). Since then many smokes and no problems including smoking two different large briskets. One of them weighed 16 lbs that took 24 hrs to do and was the tenderest, most flavorful beef that we and 15 others have ever eaten. These briskets were several inches longer, (over 20 inches) than the diagonal length of the BS rack so that they had to bend several inches up the BS wall to get in--no problem. After 24 hrs in the BS they had shrunk several inches in length. They were then FTC'd for 5 hrs.
WCS

MallardWacker · September 16, 2005, 04:27:19 PM

WCS,

Please I'm not being a booger here, but may I sugest opening your vent just a little more. I have smoked plenty of brisket and chicken(which is worse) and have not really experianced the problem.

SmokeOn,

mski
Perryville, Arkansas
Wooo-Pig-Soooie

If a man says he knows anything at all, he knows nothing what he aught to know. But...

Brabus · September 16, 2005, 06:54:47 PM

<blockquote id="quote">quote:<hr height="1" noshade id="quote">Originally posted by MallardWacker
 Brab,

If you have a "Sports Academy" in town, they $15.95. I have a couple of them.

<hr height="1" noshade id="quote"></blockquote id="quote">

There's no Sports Academy in my area... Where else can i get one?

MallardWacker · September 16, 2005, 09:05:35 PM

Maybe check "Linens and Things" has the most selection, but "Bed Bath and Beyond" has one or two. But "Linens and Things" is where I would start.

SmokeOn,

mski
Perryville, Arkansas
Wooo-Pig-Soooie

If a man says he knows anything at all, he knows nothing what he aught to know. But...

JJC · September 18, 2005, 03:28:00 AM

I really like the Maverick ET-73 and it's down to about $30-35 on Amazon or other places . . . you get a wireless dual probe (cabinet and meat) thermometer with an alarm--really a sleep saver! The Raptor/ProComm combo is 10X more and probably worth it, but if you want to try something relatively cheap, go with the Mav.

John
Newton MA

wet coast smoke · September 20, 2005, 09:53:16 AM

Mallard Whacker,
After the 2nd time my BS had small amounts of condensed water run out of the door, I spoke with a BS rep who interstingly recommended what I did and of course there has been no problem since.
Respectfully, I am sure that your method of controlling this potential small problem is also effective. By increasing the opening of the damper however, one is increasing the air flow out and in to the BS to the extent that it is dehydrating the air such that the relative humidity remains above the dewpoint and no water as a liquid will form or condense. However an increase in dehydration of the BS' contents also occurs, perhaps to an indestinguishable degree but I want my brisket, turkey breast or whatever. to be as moist as possible. Like you, I now do my smoking at temps below the boiling temp of water. Secondly, the greater the air flow, the greater the heat load, also the more air the less will be the concentration of the smoke and thus less of its flavor will be imparted to the BS' contents.
We have an AGA stove in our kitchen, part of its greatness is in the small airflow through its ovens.

Habanero Smoker · September 20, 2005, 11:20:41 AM

Just adding my point of view. I'm not saying there is nothing wrong with your method.
<blockquote id="quote">quote:<hr height="1" noshade id="quote">Originally posted by wet coast smoke
 By increasing the opening of the damper however, one is increasing the air flow out and in to the BS to the extent that it is dehydrating the air such that the relative humidity remains above the dewpoint and no water as a liquid will form or condense. However an increase in dehydration of the BS' contents also occurs, perhaps to an indestinguishable degree but I want my brisket, turkey breast or whatever. to be as moist as possible.
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I understand your theory, but I am not one who believes moist air equals moist meat when you are dealing with regular cuts of meat.
<blockquote id="quote">quote:<hr height="1" noshade id="quote">Originally posted by wet coast smoke
 
Secondly, the greater the air flow, the greater the heat load, also the more air the less will be the concentration of the smoke and thus less of its flavor will be imparted to the BS' contents.
We have an AGA stove in our kitchen, part of its greatness is in the small airflow through its ovens.
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I'm not sure what you mean about a heat load. The BS has an electrical heating element, it is not fueled by wood or charcoal, so opening the vent will not not make the fuel burn hotter. If you are stating that by opening the vent you will need to turn up the heating element, that is correct in most cases. One of the exceptions is when there is too much moisture in the cabinet.

I have a different point of view. It takes a lot more energy to evaporate water, so when the cabinet contains a lot of moisture, you heating element will usually have to be set at full just to keep the temperature around 200 degrees F. It takes less energy to heat less humid air.

I keep my vent open 1/4 to 1/3 for most food. For chicken with skin I keep in open 1/4 to 1/2, until most of the moisture contained in the skin has evaporated, then I will close it some. With these vent openings I get great smoke flavor, and I like more smoke then others.

Oldman · September 20, 2005, 11:29:49 AM

West Coast Smoker,

Where I live at the RH factor is many time 90% plus. Yet I never had the problems you are talking about. I set my vent open just enough to keep the smoke from coming out of the generator.

If you feel you are losing favor due to a more open vent then why not extend your smokin' time one or two more pucks or use a stronger wood. Personally, I have not found this to be a problem. However, we all have different taste.

Now you said you wanted the most moist items you can get. May I suggest that after your smoke period either to use the T-shirt method or boat your food in foil to hold in as much moisture around your item.

In the picture below is a chicken I did using the T-shirt method. Where you see that hole in the skin when I did that the juices just ran all over the place. Next if you look at the thigh/ leg area they look pregnant. This is do to all of the liquid.

Click To Enlarge

I will note that I have never done more than 2 chickens at a time. Perhaps with 4 or more I might have a moisture problem. If so then it would be a simple matter of opening the vent more, adding more pucks if needed for flavoring. I guess it kind of like finding a balance. Once you do I don't see how your foods would dry out.

Good Luck!

Olds

wet coast smoke · September 20, 2005, 02:20:19 PM

I have not had problems with drying out the food, nor have I had a problem with heat load. I merely stated that by increasing the air flow through the BS that it will tend to dry the BS and its contents more than it would otherwise and it will decrease the cabinet temperature through the increased heat load. Probably in most instances the differences are minimal or as I suggested, indestinguishable. IMO, maximum smoking effects are, as one of you suggest, with minimal air flow, being only the amount of air that is necessary to stop smoke from reverse flowing out of the smoke generator. As to the heat load effects of any liquid- condensed water being present, it will depend to some extent on what the cabinet temp is. If one is operating the cabinet well above 212, then the water will not condense to the liquid state but be boiled off as steam and be carried with the smoke out the vent. If we operate the cabinet below 212 deg the water present should have little or no effect on the cabinet temp but it will help to maintain a higher water content of the air present (humidity). If there is water present as a liquid at some point and one wishes to increase the temp above 212 any appreciable amount, then that liquid water will certainly increase the heat load significantly through having to boil it off (latent heat requirement).
This is becoming a gas processing discussion, LOL, (I used to work in that industry). Thanks for the responses and intelligent discussion, it is always good.

wet coast smoke · September 20, 2005, 02:43:41 PM

Olds,
I do use the foil wrap method, I apply it at about 150 deg meat temp then when the meat reaches "cooked" temp I remove it from the Bradley, give it a shot of liquid - mop or apple juice, wrap it up again and put it in our Aga's 160 deg 'warming oven' to rest and wait for meal time. If we didn't have the Aga I would FTC it which we tried also with very good results. No problem with smoke flavor either as I believe we afe getting max smoke with minimal air flow. Thanks to yourself and all of the other veteran/regulars, I quickly learned about the foil, FTC and much much more, you are a truly knowledgeable bunch of very pleasant ladies and gentlemen.
WCS

Habanero Smoker · September 20, 2005, 04:01:36 PM

<blockquote id="quote">quote:<hr height="1" noshade id="quote">Originally posted by wet coast smoke
 I have not had problems with drying out the food, nor have I had a problem with heat load. I merely stated that by increasing the air flow through the BS that it will tend to dry the BS and its contents more than it would otherwise and it will decrease the cabinet temperature through the increased heat load. Probably in most instances the differences are minimal or as I suggested, indestinguishable. IMO, maximum smoking effects are, as one of you suggest, with minimal air flow, being only the amount of air that is necessary to stop smoke from reverse flowing out of the smoke generator. As to the heat load effects of any liquid- condensed water being present, it will depend to some extent on what the cabinet temp is. If one is operating the cabinet well above 212, then the water will not condense to the liquid state but be boiled off as steam and be carried with the smoke out the vent. If we operate the cabinet below 212 deg the water present should have little or no effect on the cabinet temp but it will help to maintain a higher water content of the air present (humidity). If there is water present as a liquid at some point and one wishes to increase the temp above 212 any appreciable amount, then that liquid water will certainly increase the heat load significantly through having to boil it off (latent heat requirement).
This is becoming a gas processing discussion, LOL, (I used to work in that industry). Thanks for the responses and intelligent discussion, it is always good.
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It will be good to have your knowledge on the board. I am a novice in science, but enjoy studying the science of cooking. I just want to state I was talking about evaporation, which does not require the water to boil, but does require some energy to convert water to a gas. From experience, I've learned that more moisture in the cabinet will bring your temperature down. Looking at if from a cooking point of view (in an oven or other type of cooking cabinet), in order for water to evaporate it will pull heat (energy) for the surrounding air.

Like I said I'm a novice, but enjoy learning the science of cooking. Maybe you can answer a question, excluding a pressure cooker; if the moisture reaches a saturation point, condensation should take place (I believe); at this point is more energy needed to keep the air saturated, or does it reach a point of equilibrium?

wet coast smoke · September 20, 2005, 09:57:54 PM

HS
The water content is a function of the pressure and temperature of the air. In this situation the pressure of course is constant, being atmospheric at approx 14.7 psia. As the temp increases which is what generally takes place in a BS, the airs capacity for water (in the vapor state)increases significantly (exponentially). As an example,at 40 deg the capacity at saturation (100 % relative humidity)is approx 0.4 lbs per cubic foot, at 60 deg it is 0.8 and at 100 deg it is about 3 lbs .
You are correct that any water increase beyond saturation will be as liquid water. Also if you are operating the BS at saturation, any decrese in temp of that air will result in condensation occuring (liquid). Did you ever notice the difference in the rate of evaporation of water in a dry climate versus a humid say, oceanside climate? Or the large amount of water condensing off of your cold glass of beer on a hot humid day at the coast versus the much smaller amount on a much cooler day because the cooler air even if near saturated (high humidity day) contains only a small fraction of water compared to the hot humid coastal or lakeside air.

Habanero Smoker · September 20, 2005, 10:16:31 PM

Thanks for the information.

Your second paragraph, I know fairly well. One of my hobbies is monitoring the weather conditions. Our local television station has many "weather spotters" to report the local weather, which I am one. Most of the time it's fun, sometimes it becomes a hassle.[:)]

Oldman · September 21, 2005, 12:14:26 AM

<blockquote id="quote">quote:<hr height="1" noshade id="quote">you are a truly knowledgeable bunch of very pleasant ladies and gentlemen.
<hr height="1" noshade id="quote"></blockquote id="quote">

Well knock me down and chew the gum twice. I thank you on behalf of all of us that are still learning. [^]

Olds

calatexmex · September 21, 2005, 03:36:26 PM

Now this may not apply to the Bradley because of the way the pucks are made, but with any other barbecue cooker it is recomended that you leave the exhaust vent wide open while cooking. This is to prevent the nasty stuff in the wood smoke, like creosotes from condensing and dripping back down on your meat. [xx(] So I alway's leave my vent wide open no matter what I am smoking. <blockquote id="quote">quote:<hr height="1" noshade id="quote">Well knock me down and chew the gum twice. I thank you on behalf of all of us that are still learning. <hr height="1" noshade id="quote"></blockquote id="quote">
You said it Old's. It's good to have some scientific perspective to this art we call smoking/barbecueing.

Mike C