Snack Stick Problems

[JZ]

The last batch of sticks I made turned out with a horrible mouth feel. Kind of mealy / crumbly and I ended up throwing them out. I figured that it was because I added some citric acid to the meat while mixing in the spices and cure. I didn't have ECA and thought that Citric Acid would be ok. But maybe that wasn't the problem. During the drying stage temp set at 110* the sticks were leaking fat and I thought that was strange.

So here I am doing another batch with a different recipe and the sticks are leaking significant fat with the smoker at 110*. Now I think maybe the problem is due to the fat smearing. When I mixed the meat and spices I did a test fry and it was very good. Then after stuffing using the stick attachment for my Weston 3/4hp grinder I had some left over meat in the tube and fried it up. This stuff was drier and had a bit of that mealy texture to it again. I'm going forward this smoke session but I'm expecting to have similar results to last time. I need to figure out what I'm doing wrong so I can fix it. Any suggestions?

Oh for further info I step the smoker temps 10* at a time, for one hour duration, starting at 110 and ending at 160.

[Bugnut]

Are you sure the internal temperature of the smoker is @110. I've never experienced fat out at that low of temp. Others with more experience will be along to add some advice.

[JZ]

The temp is being being controlled by an Auber PID and the therm on the Bradley door is reading 10* lower than the Auber shows, so I'm pretty sure the temps are not excessively high. That why I think there is something else going on.

[ragweed]

I may be wrong but, sounds to me like you're using a grinder to do a stuffer's job.  A stuffer does no further mixing/grinding of the meat.  Whereas a grinder with attachments does.  This might explain the difference between taste/mouth feel after just mixing in the spices to after the stuff.  I'm sure the expert stick makers will be along soon with help.

[devo]

By using just citric acid you will make your batch dry and crumbly.

Here is quote from the great Guru Nepa  ;D

Regular powdered CA will start to work right away and will make the meat turn white and mushy. Thus the ECA. The coating around the ECA will melt at 132* and start to work. Mix the ECA in by hand, never grind it.

[Sailor]

Encapsulated citric acid is citric acid, a naturally occurring acid that has been encapsulated (coated) with maltodexrine, a
hydrogenated vegetable oil, which will melt at 141-147 degrees F. releasing the citric acid into the meat product. This
prevents the citric acid from releasing and prematurely lowering the ph of your sausage meat mix. If the meat's ph drops
before the protein sets at 105-115 degrees you will get a negative effect on the texture of your finished sausage. It won't
bind as well and the texture will be crumbly.

By using regular citric acid you are keeping the meat protein from binding and the fat is free to flow.  Fat starts to liquify around 100 degrees.  If the meat protein sets or binds then it will hold the fat that has become liquid.  Unless you get the temps up to around 175 area then you are going to "cook" the fat or render it and then you have fat out.

By smoking at a low temp and gradually bumping the cabinet temp you are bringing the IT up slowly and letting the meat set or bind.  The last stage of the smoke you are melting the maltodexrine and allowing the CA to flow into the meat to give you the tang. 

If you are dripping fat and using citric acid then that is your problem.

Also on your cabinet temp you might want to change that a bit.  If you start at 110 then bump 10 degrees every hour you are bringing the temps up too fast.  You are getting to 160 in 5 hours.  Try to dry at 130 for 1 hour then bump 10 degrees every 2 hours.  You are giving the sausage a steady heat for a longer period of time to bind. I put 2 hours of smoke on at 140 and 1 hr of smoke at 150 and when the smoke is finished my IT is around 120 meaning that the meat has set or is darn close to setting.  Most of my sticks finish with an IT of 152 shortly after the PID cranks up to 160.  I have a fan in the OBS and can finish a 5 pound load of sticks in 6 to 7 hrs and I use ECA and don't have fat out.

Hope this helps.

[JZ]

By using just citric acid you will make your batch dry and crumbly.

Here is quote from the great Guru Nepa  ;D

Regular powdered CA will start to work right away and will make the meat turn white and mushy. Thus the ECA. The coating around the ECA will melt at 132* and start to work. Mix the ECA in by hand, never grind it.

You and the Great Guru are right on the money for the previous smoke. Live and learn. :)

Encapsulated citric acid is citric acid, a naturally occurring acid that has been encapsulated (coated) with maltodexrine, a
hydrogenated vegetable oil, which will melt at 141-147 degrees F. releasing the citric acid into the meat product. This
prevents the citric acid from releasing and prematurely lowering the ph of your sausage meat mix. If the meat's ph drops
before the protein sets at 105-115 degrees you will get a negative effect on the texture of your finished sausage. It won't
bind as well and the texture will be crumbly.

By using regular citric acid you are keeping the meat protein from binding and the fat is free to flow.  Fat starts to liquify around 100 degrees.  If the meat protein sets or binds then it will hold the fat that has become liquid.  Unless you get the temps up to around 175 area then you are going to "cook" the fat or render it and then you have fat out.

By smoking at a low temp and gradually bumping the cabinet temp you are bringing the IT up slowly and letting the meat set or bind.  The last stage of the smoke you are melting the maltodexrine and allowing the CA to flow into the meat to give you the tang. 

If you are dripping fat and using citric acid then that is your problem.

Also on your cabinet temp you might want to change that a bit.  If you start at 110 then bump 10 degrees every hour you are bringing the temps up too fast.  You are getting to 160 in 5 hours.  Try to dry at 130 for 1 hour then bump 10 degrees every 2 hours.  You are giving the sausage a steady heat for a longer period of time to bind. I put 2 hours of smoke on at 140 and 1 hr of smoke at 150 and when the smoke is finished my IT is around 120 meaning that the meat has set or is darn close to setting.  Most of my sticks finish with an IT of 152 shortly after the PID cranks up to 160.  I have a fan in the OBS and can finish a 5 pound load of sticks in 6 to 7 hrs and I use ECA and don't have fat out.

Hope this helps.

WOW that is a LOT of really great information and much appreciated.

I didn't use Citric acid this time, cause I figured it was the problem last time and based on your info, it likely was (because it wasn't encapsulated). This time actually turned out better than expected but still not great. There was a LOT of fat rendered from the stix but they weren't as bad as last time. I'm keeping this batch.

I have a question though about the temps you suggested. You suggest starting at 130 then bumping 10* every 2 hours to slow down the ramp up temps which makes total sense but I am having issues with fat out at 110 so a higher starting temp won't help that. Maybe I need to let it warm up at room temp for more than an hour after pulling it from the fridge.

I started at 8 AM today and just finished at 6 PM with smoke running for 4.5 hours.
Here's a pic of the finished stix. they taste great but the texture is not right.


I checked one of my sausage making books and it appears my problem may be that I'm not keeping the meat cold enough during the processing stage. According to this book, if the the fat/meat mixture gets too warm the fat will not bind with the meat, causing the meat to be a mealy texture.

It's a good thing I like making sausages ........... cause I'm sure getting a lot of practice.  :)

[Sailor]

Can't really tell but it looks like you are shooting the mix right on the racks and not stuffing in casings.  If so you have a lot of surface area that is going to bubble fat.  Heck when I use 97/3 GB for jerky and I shoot it on the racks I get fat all over the surface of the jerky.  I smoke at 150 until they are done.  I just wipe it with a paper towel and fridge it.  What I am saying is that if you have naked meat you are going to see fat rendering on the surface.  If you are using 80/20 GB and shooting right on the racks you are going to get a lot more fat on the surface.  Try to use casings and see how that works out for you.

[JZ]

Its hard to see in the pic but those are in 19mm collagen casings. I stuff the casings with a cyclone stick stuffer attachment for my grinder. The thing works great and is plenty fast. I have a dedicated 11lb vertical stuffer but find it easier to and just as fast to use the grinder attachment. I stuff a really long length on the counter then cut to lengths and place on the racks. The meat was mix of about 50% lean beef and 50% of 80/20 pork.

I think I may have left the meat on the counter just long enough that the heat generated from the stuffing broke some of the meat / fat bond. Next time I will be more diligent about keeping things very cold.

I've made notes about your suggested temps and timing and will use those next time.

Looking at your comments again I see the meat protein sets between 105 and 115*. So does keeping the meat at 110 for an hour help or hinder this? Is it better to skip across that temp range quickly to help the protein set?

[watchdog56]

So what is the big difference using ECA vs Soy protein concentrate?

[Sailor]

Looking at your comments again I see the meat protein sets between 105 and 115*. So does keeping the meat at 110 for an hour help or hinder this? Is it better to skip across that temp range quickly to help the protein set?

JZ I don't know the scientific answer to your question.  All I can tell you is that Rick (NEPAS) told me a very long time ago to dry the casings at 130 for 1 hour.  Bump the temp up to 140 for 2 hrs and increase the temp 10 degrees every 2 hrs and hold at 170.  I have followed those instructions to a T and only had 1 fat out in my snack stick making and it was my fault for forgetting about the sticks and 12 hours later they were toast.

Don't know who told you or what instructions said to start at 100 to 110 degrees and go to 160 but I am sure there are many different ways to do sticks.  I just know that doing them the NEPAS way works for me and I ain't changing  ;D.  If you start out at 130 you are getting the IT up quicker and bumping 10 degrees every 2 hrs you are getting more of a steady heat.  I know that by the time that I have ended a 3 hrs smoke the IT on a 19 MM stick is about 120 so I recon the meat set in that 3 hr period.

Keep a log of your cooks and the temps that you are using.  When you find the sweet spot you can produce it again and again.  I just know that my sweet spot is the way Rick told me.

[Sailor]

So what is the big difference using ECA vs Soy protein concentrate?

ECA give you the tang that is associated in dry cured sausages that have been fermented.  ECA is a cheap and easy way to get the tang without fermenting or dry curing.  SPC is a binder and has no tang qualities.

[JZ]

Looking at your comments again I see the meat protein sets between 105 and 115*. So does keeping the meat at 110 for an hour help or hinder this? Is it better to skip across that temp range quickly to help the protein set?

JZ I don't know the scientific answer to your question.  All I can tell you is that Rick (NEPAS) told me a very long time ago to dry the casings at 130 for 1 hour.  Bump the temp up to 140 for 2 hrs and increase the temp 10 degrees every 2 hrs and hold at 170.  I have followed those instructions to a T and only had 1 fat out in my snack stick making and it was my fault for forgetting about the sticks and 12 hours later they were toast.

Don't know who told you or what instructions said to start at 100 to 110 degrees and go to 160 but I am sure there are many different ways to do sticks.  I just know that doing them the NEPAS way works for me and I ain't changing  ;D.  If you start out at 130 you are getting the IT up quicker and bumping 10 degrees every 2 hrs you are getting more of a steady heat.  I know that by the time that I have ended a 3 hrs smoke the IT on a 19 MM stick is about 120 so I recon the meat set in that 3 hr period.

Keep a log of your cooks and the temps that you are using.  When you find the sweet spot you can produce it again and again.  I just know that my sweet spot is the way Rick told me.

Thanks Sailor. I will definitely try your method next time. I'm with you about staying with something that works. If it ain't broke, don't fix it. :)

[NePaSmoKer]

ENCAPSULATED CITRIC ACID: Use encapsulated citric acid when making summer sausage or snack sticks and that distinctive "tang", associated with reduce pH, is desired but the lengthy fermentation cycle is not. When used correctly, it is almost impossible to tell if the sausage was manufactured by fermentation or by the use of this product. There is no need to worry about processing under special conditions. You just add the citric acid to the meat at end of the mixing process (making sure that you do not grind meat again), and then blend into the meat by hand or by mixer. If using a meat mixer, mix only until the encapsulated citric acid is blended into the meat mix, usually about one minute is sufficient. Longer mixing can cause the capsules to rupture resulting in the premature release of the citric acid.

Encapsulated citric acid is citric acid, a naturally occurring acid, that has been encapsulated (coated) with maltodexrine, a hydrogenated vegetable oil, which will melt at 135 degrees F. releasing the citric acid into the meat product. This prevents the citric acid from releasing and prematurely lowering the ph of your sausage meat mix. If the meat's ph drops before the protein sets at 105-115 degrees you will get a negative effect on the texture of your finished sausage. It won't bind as well and the texture will be crumbly.
Encapsulated citric acid should be added and mixed in after the grinding is complete as not to rupture the capsules. Since the encapsulation prevents release into the meat until the meat's internal temperature reaches 135 degrees F. a ruptured or damaged capsule will release the citric acid prematurely causing the undesired affects listed above.
Once the capsule is melted releasing the citric acid into the product decrease in pH is achieved resulting in the distinctive "tang" or sour taste associated with reduced pH products.

Suggested usage for this purpose is 3 oz. for 25 lb. of meat
Also use to preserve color of fresh sausage during storage. Use 1/2 oz. to 1 oz. per 100 lb. of meat for this purpose.
NOTE: Too much Citric Acid will cause the meat to turn white.