Mallard's BIG Chicken Brine Adventure...

MallardWacker · November 04, 2004, 04:48:42 PM

This past weekend I decided to do something different, brine chicken. What I did was is brine a bunch of split fryer breasts and legs (for the kids). I searched the web over and found way to many recipes on this subject. They were all over the map. So I gleaned a bit and found some consistent attributes to most of the brines. I wanted something quick and not to overly involved with a bunch of ingredients. Here is what I came up with....

Mallard's Quick and Easy Brine(to me anyway)

1 GAL of water
3/4 cup of Kosher Salt
2/3 cup of Maple Sugar
1 cup of Apple Juice
1/2 cup of White Vinegar
1 Tablespoon of Pickling Spice
1 Teaspoon of Fresh ground Black Pepper
1/4 cup of EVO(That is Arky talk for EVOO)
1 Tablespoon of chopped Garlic

Put water in pot and bring up to a minor boil and add all the STUFF. Stir till all that STUFF is dissolved. And let cool. I mean cool-putting chicken in hot or warm brine may result in little things growing that may a hazard to your health.

After the brine is cooled down put the chicken in a non-reactive container.(This is where I use my semi-reusable containers from Zip-Lok-they work great for this) and let sit over night in the fridge. 10hrs.

(at this point, I will start pontificating and you have the complete freedom to move on to something more important if you wish)

The out come of the brining experience was great. Cooked around 210 or so with 4hrs of smoke to a internal of 165deg. The chicken did taste a whole lot better than just smoking alone. However this is what I might change:

When cooking chicken "parts" rotate your racks like ribs.

I might up the SALT and SUGAR to one cup each. This brine was definitely not salty at all. I saw some recipes that had nearly 2cups of salt, wow, that seems a bit much. Would love to taste the maple a little more. I think you could use Maple Syrup instead of sugar and get the same results or maybe better.

Also add 2 Tablespoons of Picling Spice.

I WOULD love to have you Brine Miester input here.

This got me thinking(again, that could be trouble like trying to smoke Yellow Squash). For Thanksgiving I want to cut a Turkey in half and brine the snot out of it with a good brine recipe. Put one half on a rack and smoke to the breasts are 165 or so with Apple wood. Thought of this huge whole bird in the BS still make me a bit un-easy. I think the two halves would be much more manageable. Has any ever tried this??? Good or Bad idea????

One last thing about the end product with this chicken this past weekend. Yesterday my wife cut up one of these breast and made Chicken Salad out if. Man-whew dude! THAT was best stuff I have eaten in along time.

One last thing that helps with this brining thing and having to cool down the brine. I found out it takes FOREVER to just let it sit on the top of the stove and wait for something to happen. What I ended up doing is putting the pot in the sink with ice and water. It was amazing on how fast that cooled down to 50deg, nothing flat in less than a 1/2 hour.

Love to have y'alls input here. Everyone have a great day...

SmokeOn,

mski
Perryville, Arkansas
Wooo-Pig-Soooie

If a man says he knows anything at all, he knows nothing what he aught to know. But...

BigSmoker · November 04, 2004, 07:09:36 PM

MW,
As always you bring up some great topics for discussion. My first thought is aren't the chicken legs supposed to get to 180f? I'm asking because my discriminating folks just want the breast meat. I like you have been researching brining for the Thanksgiving bird. I also found more brines than had room to process in my head. The common factors in all of them though are some type of liquid and salt. Most also included some type of sweetner but not all. I think the brine you used sounds good except why did you feel the need for the pickling spice? That would contain nitrates for curing would it not? For the amount of time you cooked for it seems you brined the chicken for the flavor and not to preserve it. Does the pickling spice impart an additional flavor? I am also suprised the chicken was not salty. Most recipes I saw only called for 2-4 hrs for chicken pieces. It could be after that amount of time the poultry dosen't absorb much more of the brine. Did you rinse the parts before smoking? I have also read you should let the poultry sit uncovered overnight(or at least several hours for parts) in the fridge and the skin will crisp up nicely. And yes smoked chicken salad is very good. Lots of times I buy an extra chicken just for this purpose[:D].

On to the turkey------> You can spatchcock a turkey basically just like a chicken. A friend of mine from another forum has a video of this process. He is a retired butcher and knows his stuff. Here is the link http://home.comcast.net/~ask-the-butcher/sp.wmv
I have found the most info about cooking this type of turkey here
http://www.kamado.com/discus/messages/2/20.html?1099407358
I am at this point cooking two turkeys for t-day. One brined in buttermilk instead of water and one injected with cranberry juice & chicken broth. Happy Smokin'.

Jeff
www.bbqshopping.com
Some say BBQ is in your blood, if thats true my blood must be BBQ sauce.

Habanero Smoker · November 05, 2004, 04:46:14 AM

MW;
Another way to speed up the cooling process of your brine is that you should not heat up the entire gallon of water. Usually you can dissolve the salt and sugar in two cups of water taken for the gallon of water you want to use in the recipe. Just place 2 cups of water and pickling spices in a sauce pan, bring to a boil, then let that simmer for 10 minutes; making sure all the salt and sugar has dissolved. This will also intensify the flavor of the spices. Next add this solution to the remaining water that has been previously chilled, and then add the rest of the ingredients. For myself I only use 1/2 cup of salt per gallon (brining 10-12 hours), because I don't want the salty taste, and for a gallon of brine 2 tablespoons of pickling spice would be better than one. I use McCormick, but the variety of pickling spice blend out there is enormous. As for substituting Maple Syrup instead of Maple Sugar; I am not sure what the ratio would be. The Maple Sugar I have, give instructions that in order to make syrup, you add one part Maple Sugar to 3 parts water. So does that mean you have to add 3 times the amount of syrup? I don't know the answer to that. Look like a good recipe, but I don't know if I would use the vinegar. By the way what is EVOO???

Jeff;
Pickling spices are a blend of whole spices, that impart a nice flavor in poultry. There are no curing agents in any of the brands I ever saw or used. Here are a couple of examples of pickling spice blends, to give you an idea of what pickling spice is http://whatscookingamerica.net/Q-A/PicklingSpice.htm . I must add I have not tried these blends; I only use McCormick's mixture.

whitetailfan · November 05, 2004, 05:11:31 AM

Good reply Hab, thanks for the clarification on Pickling Spice.
One point I would like to make is I wonder why people do not want the nitrites. I have never purchased pickling spice, so I dont know exactly what it is, but if it did have Sodium Nitrite in it, I think that would be great.

One of the reasons that I suggested to Mallard in another thread to use the Hi-Mtn brine was because it does include some actual cure. If I'm slow cooking poultry (which we all get worked up about for safety) then I'd be pleased if my brine contained botulism inhibitors.

whitetailfan
"Nice Rack"
Lethbridge, AB

BigSmoker · November 05, 2004, 01:58:25 PM

Habs.,
Thanks for the clarification on the pickiling spice. I'm new to brining and appreciate all the info I can get. Also a great tip on using just using enough water to disolve the salt and stuff[:)]. Have read 50+ brine recipes and no one has mentioned that.

I still feel using cure will change the taste from roasted/smoked turkey to more of a ham taste. Although there is nothing wrong with that. I plan to cook/smoke the turkey on the higher temp side 275f until the breast is 160-165f. I don't think a 10-12 lb turkey will take much longer than 4-5 hrs to completely cook. Brining will reduce the amount of cook time. If you are doing a 20lber than yes some tenderquick or the like is probally needed.

Jeff
www.bbqshopping.com
Some say BBQ is in your blood, if thats true my blood must be BBQ sauce.

MallardWacker · November 05, 2004, 02:36:41 PM

White, HS, BS,

The reason I used Pickling Spice was the fact that it had all these spices that people were putting in individually. That stuff really smells good! You are correct there are no curing agents in that spice mix, I used McCormick also.

Question, does the ratio of salt and sugar need to be a certain amount to be a brine? Does a brine actually "cure" the meat some?

EVOO=Extra Virgin Olive OIL

I am very seriously looking to do a cut in half turkey for T-Day. I think it would be a lot easier to brine and fit in the BS better. I guess say good bye to the wish bone. That stinking BS probe always seems to get on the way. Have a great day guys.

SmokeOn,

mski
Perryville, Arkansas
Wooo-Pig-Soooie

If a man says he knows anything at all, he knows nothing what he aught to know. But...

bsolomon · November 05, 2004, 04:34:15 PM

For the salt issue, in addition to differneces in brining time, I think the key here is that all salt is not created equal. So be sure you know if your brine recipe is designed for table salt or kosher salt, and even if you know it is kosher salt, different brands measure differently due to differences in the crysal "flake" sizes. I have a really good article on brining basics from Cooks Illustrated magazine. If I can get it scanned and converted to text via OCR, I'll post it here. Their basic brine recipe calls for three different amounts of salt depending on whether you use Morton Table, Morton Kosher, or Diamond Kosher Salt.

Habanero Smoker · November 05, 2004, 05:06:24 PM

The Virtual Weber Website post most of the results of the article in Cook's Illustrated you are referring to. http://www.virtualweberbullet.com/brining.html#kosher. Though I don't agree with their conclusion on the minimum amount of salt that is required to brine. But be sure to scroll to the top of the page. There is a vast amount of information on brining.

MallardWacker · November 05, 2004, 06:31:52 PM

It was quite eveident that YOU DO NOT USE Iodized salt. There were more than one recipe with that caution for some reason. I don't know the reason. Also the Alton guy on "Good Eats" mentioned that he uses Kosher in all his brines.

EDIT: Thanks HS, that link you gave us sounds complete, though I have not read it, it looks like will answer alot of questions. I will be looking at it after I am done here.

SmokeOn,

mski
Perryville, Arkansas
Wooo-Pig-Soooie

If a man says he knows anything at all, he knows nothing what he aught to know. But...

bsolomon · November 05, 2004, 06:47:08 PM

Thanks to Habanero Smoker for the really good link on brining, and it contains all of the info I was referring to. When you look through the information, there are two reasons that most people say not to used iodized salt. First is the flavor issue - some say the potassium iodide imparts an unpleasant flavor, but that is questionable. The real reason is that for the most part, iodized means table salt, and as you will read, salinity for brine should be based on weight, but everyone uses recipes by volume. Because kosher salt is a "fluffier" crystal structure than table salt, it weighs substantally less (up to 50%) than the equivalent amount of table salt.

So if your brine recipe is deisgned for kosher salt and you substitute table salt, you could have up to twice as much salt in the recipe than what was intended. Similarly, if the recipe was designed for table salt and you use kosher, you will only have 1/2 as much as is needed.

Differences in brands of kosher salt would account for minor variations, but whenever I see something like "way too salty" or "not nearly salty enough", I always assume one of the above scenarios.

PAsmoker · November 09, 2004, 07:13:52 PM

MW, for maple flavoring, I like to use maple extract. It comes in those little brown bottles like vanilla & rootbeer extract. It really adds flavor.

Here is a brine recipie that I posted a long while back.

"I usually brine my bird. Here's an approximation of my recipie. I change it up a little from time to time.
To 1 gallon cold water (or more depending on the size of your bird) add:
1 1/2 cups kosher salt
1 1/2 tablespoon crushed or minced garlic or garlic powder
1/2 tablespoon onion powder
1/4 cup black pepper
1/2 ounce maple extract flavoring
a couple of bay leaves
a few cloves (or if ground already, add to taste)
I've also added to this and enjoyed:
a can of ginger ale, 1/2 cup of molasses, a little lemon juice, pickeling spices.
Let soak overnight. Rinse well & dry before smoking. Try to hit about 170deg before pulling.
I've been using maple wood here lately. With the maple extract & maple smoke,mmmmmmmmmmmmm."

I've brined many birds & they always come out really juicy. I don't think that you'll need to cut the bird in half before you smoke it. The only thing that may help is for it to cook a little faster, but it's no big deal.

MallardWacker · November 09, 2004, 07:25:53 PM

PA,

Thats what I am looking for, that is a great recipe. It seems very simple and adjustable. What about "the sugar" or does it really need it?? Thanks!

SmokeOn,

mski
Perryville, Arkansas
Wooo-Pig-Soooie

If a man says he knows anything at all, he knows nothing what he aught to know. But...

PAsmoker · November 09, 2004, 08:10:02 PM

MW, I've never added sugar, so I don't know what to tell you. Personally, I do not think it needs any.

MallardWacker · November 09, 2004, 09:38:11 PM

PA,

So you really don't need a sugar for a brine. All in all does a brine do "some" curing and the benifit of that is that you get juicier meat and added flavor??

SmokeOn,

mski
Perryville, Arkansas
Wooo-Pig-Soooie

If a man says he knows anything at all, he knows nothing what he aught to know. But...

PAsmoker · November 10, 2004, 08:15:53 PM

The brine does have some curing effect. The salt also allows the pores of the meat to open & suck in all that flavorfull brine. It also helps keep the breast meat moist during a long cook. I don't see why you couldn't use sugar, I just never have. I saw some recipies with sugar listed and some without. Personal choice there.