Sam's club salmon

JJC · December 22, 2004, 09:09:31 PM

<blockquote id="quote">quote:<hr height="1" noshade id="quote">Originally posted by Ian
 Good Afternoon J2C,

John I think you've hit this dead on. We would all agree a wild Salmon would have a better flavor, but like you I buy my product wholesale. Its shipped in styrofoam boxes, sealed bags with cooler packs etc. This product is from Heritage, it's North America's largest fully integreted grower/supplier of farm raised Atlanta Salmon with state of the art plants in New Bruinswick, British Columbia, and I think Maine as well as the Southern tip of Chile (but I'm not sure about Chile though). Anyhow,if people are looking at farm raised Salmon a couple of good guide lines would be no excessive fishy odour, firm to the point where a finger print doesn't leave an indent, a bright dark orange color, as well as no tears in the flesh.[8D]

Ian ( GO STEELERS!!!!! )

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Other than the GO STEELERS part, I agree with all of your guidelines. I just checked my last box of Atlantic salmon, and it was from Heritage--the New Brunswick location, not Maine.

John
Newton MA

tsquared · December 30, 2004, 03:50:54 PM

My brother gets wild caught frozen arctic char (char are like large trout, salmon size) flown in from the Canadian Arctic which he uses to smoke.He does this because he is a stubble jumper from Calgary and has trouble catching his own salmon.[:D](I hope he reads this!) I've tasted his product and it's great. I'm not sure of the size of the orders he gets in but the cost is around $5 Canadian per pound. (roughly $4 US)If anyone is interested in ordering a box I could ask him what the name and details of the company are. I think it is a First Nations outfit.
Tom

tsquared · December 30, 2004, 03:51:29 PM

Sorry about the double message, my computer is playing silly b$ggers this morning.
Tom

Kummok · January 31, 2005, 01:17:02 AM

Coming from the Anti-Farmed Salmon bumper sticker capitol of the world, I should probably NOT forego this opportunity to weigh-in on the Wild v Farmed salmon subject. It's just my own personal opinion, but to me the main issue is taste, the secondary issue is the threat to wild salmon....hard to say honestly just WHICH is more important in the long run.

TASTE
My personal tastes in Pacific salmon run in the following order of preference:
1. King (Chinook)
2. Red (Sockeye)
3. Silver(Coho)
4. Pink (Humpy)

I prefer the higher oil content sea run (locally called "feeder"), to freshwater caught, (locally called spawners), salmon. Believe it or not, at one time, I hated salmon. My first experience with it was salmon that was poorly processed and preserved, pan fried, overcooked and, money being tight at the time, served three times a day....YUCK! Imagine salmon pancakes, salmon omeletes, and salmon/peanut butter sandwiches on salmon bread and you begin to get the idea. Now, 45 years later, I have a greatly refined respect for salmon munching....caught right, kept right, and cooked (or smoked) right. I VOLUNTARILY eat it at least 4 -5 times a week and LOVE it! In my last 54 years, I have never had a BAD piece of smoked salmon. Some recipes and/or methods of brining/smoking are just slightly BETTER than others, but NONE have produced BAD salmon so far. Farmed salmon???...I wouldn't hesitate to smoke and eat a farmed salmon IF that's ALL I could get, but that gets into the politics of salmon....

POLITICS
I understand WHY salmon are farmed...I just don't choose to support the farmed salmon industry. I believe the farmed salmon to be inferior in taste/texture and, more importantly, a threat to the superior tasting wild salmon. Atlantic salmon escape the farms and are considered an "invasive species". They reproduce in the wild. They can displace and carry diseases to the wild Pacific salmon.

I understand and agree with previous posts that a good deal of the food we purchase and consume is chemically or otherwise altered to provide a sufficient quantity of foods at reasonable prices. I've been eating that kind of stuff for years, and continue to buy and consume it everytime I or my wife go to the grocery store, whether I like it or not. I'd have a pretty hard time looking down my nose at anyone doing the same thing I do and I don't mean for this post to be constued as such. In my case, I am in what I consider to be a blessed position to be able to refuse to eat farmed salmon for the politics as well as the taste, yet STILL eat GREAT salmon. I certainly don't condemn those who eat farmed salmon for whatever reason they choose. For me and my house though, as long as there are wild salmon, I refuse to support the farmed Atlantic salmon industry....not just for taste, but for the threat they pose to wild Pacific salmon. Just my $.02 worth, since car54 asked.
[;)]

P.S.
Regarding"thickness", salmon is definately another area where size DOES matter [;)] To me, the bigger the better when CATCHIING. However, when cooking/smoking....WHATEVER the "caught" size, UNIFORM thickness is the key to success[:p]

Kummok @ Homer, AK USA

BigRed · January 31, 2005, 03:10:05 AM

To the LUCKY people that have a choice in Salmon. Living in Dallas we have few or better said NO opitions in Salmon. I use the Camerson stove top smoker EXCLUSIVELY for Salmon. Yes, we do buy our salmon at Costco and I am sure it is farm raised but it still taste darn good.
Maybe some day the wife and I will get to Alaska and try the real thing.Anyone who has not tried the Camerson stove top smoker for fish is real missing out, especially if you are in the cold north this time of the year!

BigRED

nsxbill · January 31, 2005, 04:20:49 AM

I have a Cameron Smoker too. Wait till you try some in the Bradley. I think you will change your opinion of which is better.[:D][:D] Plus it holds more! Good idea to use jerkey racks if you have them.

I used some of the tricks(aside from now brining), like lining my racks with very thin slices of lemon, and a sprinkle of fresh dill on it before smoking. Take a look at the Kummock Salmon smoking technique. I have done it that way and the way Fuzzybear describes. Both excellent.

Bill

JJC · January 31, 2005, 04:58:16 AM

Hi Kummock,

Your post on the politics of wild vs. farm-raised salmon was a real eye-opener. I smoke a lot of farm-raised Atlantic salmon from Maine or New Brunswick, and while I assume their diseases are the same as the wild Atlantic salmon, the inter-breeding problem of escaped farm fish is probably the same. Is this a potential problem or is it a demonstrated problem? From a genetic standpoint, it should be possible to determine if farm fish have bred with wild fish. Is there any such thing as an "ethical" salmon farm? Also, are all farmed fish subject to the same issues (steelhead, tilapia, etc)?

Can't say I'll completely eliminate buying farm-raised salmon, but I think I'm going to reduce the amount a lot and piggy-back on my neighbor's wild fish orders from now on.

John
Newton MA

Habanero Smoker · January 31, 2005, 05:38:07 AM

It's difficult to get any salmon in my area other than farmed raised. Once in a while I will get some wild salmon from in-laws. Side by side, you can tell a great deal of difference, and I prefer the wild salmon. After awhile, you acquire a taste for farm raised.

One thing about farm raised; I saw a report a few years ago, and was surprised to learn that the flesh of farm grown salmon is white. They put red dye in the food they feed the salmon, so that the farm raised will have the same color as the wild salmon. I'm not sure if they do this with all farm raised salmon, or just the "farm" these particular salmon were raised. The other issue was that they altered their growing genes, which made them gain wait faster.

I don't have a Camerson stove top smoker, because I make my own stove top smoker using two aluminum pans. At times I like to smoke salmon, duck or chicken breast using various woods, teas, or spices etc. It does come out good on the stove top, but as Bill states, you can't smoke that much at one time.

Habanero Smoker · January 31, 2005, 12:50:58 PM

I just got a chance to look through the Sunday circulars. A supermarket chain (Price Chopper) has "ocean raised" salmon for 2.99/lb. I never saw the phrase "ocean raised" and the price it too good to believe. Since we're in for a mild period, with highs in the low 30's, clear skies and calm, it's a good time to get some smoking done. I'm going to check this out.

Kummok · January 31, 2005, 07:44:48 PM

JJC:
So far the problem seems to be more "potential" than "real". But then again, as a retired 35+ year firefighter, I've seen "potential" become "reality" too many times to be comfortable at just sitting back to see what happens!
[;)]
All of my information comes from reliable sources....I even carry around a wallet sized card in my boat that helps me identify Atlantic salmon and gives me a number to call to report and give them the carcass. The program up here is called the 'Atlantic Salmon Watch Program". See http://www.adfg.state.ak.us/special/as/as_home.php for more info. You can also Google "Atlantic Salmon Watch Program" and get more info (From BOTH sides of the controversy!) There even seems to be an effort in Novia Scotia to bring back the "wild" Atlantic salmon....which seems to make more sense especially when you read about the problems associated with the salmon farming process.

I grew up as a logger's kid, I hunt and fish, have LOTS of firearms, I drive an "SUV", go off-roading, and do much of the other non-PC stuff.....I don't generally subscribe to environmental wacko theories and scare stories. But like a lot of you, I DO pay attention to the details of the arguments and in this case, I decided that I won't support the farmed salmon industry because of the threat potential. I still understand the "whys" and don't condemn those that do because of geographical or $$ reasons.....SOMEBODY has to use that Soylent Green junk[;)][;)] (Ouch!! Guess that's not too PC either, eh?!?!)
A final note for the forum members that have expressed an interest in coming to Alaska to chase the Wascally Wild salmon...be sure look me up if you get down Homer way.....I just might throw a WILD Alaskan, (actually Alaskan/Canadian!), salmon on the Bar-B, er, ahh, make that BRADLEY, for ya!
[:p][:D][:D]

Kummok @ Homer, AK USA

Habanero Smoker · January 31, 2005, 09:58:29 PM

Well, I found out what "ocean raised" means. It is the same as farm raised, but they net off part of the ocean and raise the salmon within the net. They only sold it frozen, in full filets weighting about 4 - 4.5 pounds each. They did not know if this was the same salmon that is raised on farms or if it is the "wild-Alantic salmon". I bought one filet to try it out.

oguard · February 01, 2005, 02:00:23 AM

Habernero, this is farmed raised salmon.This is how they "farm salmon"
This is the problem with farming, pens or nets get holes in them and fish escape[:(!][V].I did some work on fish farms so I cant knock them all, but some of them are not following the rules and regs.I am a fortunate one who can go fishing and catch the real deal.Taste difference between farm and wild are night and day if they were both caught at the same time.The wild salmon have firmer flesh and are more flavourful by far[^]
Keep on smokin[:D]
Mike in Beautiful British Columbia[8D]

Habanero Smoker · February 01, 2005, 04:19:12 AM

<blockquote id="quote">quote:<hr height="1" noshade id="quote">Originally posted by oguard
 Habernero, this is farmed raised salmon.This is how they "farm salmon"
This is the problem with farming, pens or nets get holes in them and fish escape[:(!][V].I did some work on fish farms so I cant knock them all, but some of them are not following the rules and regs.I am a fortunate one who can go fishing and catch the real deal.Taste difference between farm and wild are night and day if they were both caught at the same time.The wild salmon have firmer flesh and are more flavourful by far[^]
Keep on smokin[:D]
Mike in Beautiful British Columbia[8D]
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There also must be some that are not in the ocean. The salmon farm that I saw on the report that I mentioned above, was inland (I don't know how far), and the salmon were raised in areas that were diked off, in various pools of water.

oguard · February 01, 2005, 04:27:13 AM

Habanero,I know the fish farms on the westcoast of B.C. are all in the ocean.
Mike

Habanero Smoker · February 01, 2005, 05:09:17 AM

I did a search for the report that I saw. I might have mistaken the floating bearers for dikes. The camera angles were close. I provided a link to the report that CBS did. Also in the report it mentions the dye that is put in the food so the fish will get it's pink color, other wise the color would be grayish. "Farmers" can even choose the shade of pink they want their salmon to have (click on the "Salmon By Design" link that is within the article). Thanks for clearing up how farmed salmon are raised.

http://www.cbc.ca/consumers/market/files/food/salmon/