I have been on the forums for months now reading through everyones experience of building their own smokers. I have been inspired to do this myself many times only to give up on the idea later. There is lots of great help available here and I have finally decided I am going to give this a try regardless of the results.
I have been able to obtain a standard size stainless steel food warmer/proofer which works. Which is in good shape and fully insulated. I am not very good at this or have the know how considering this would definitely be one of the first things I am going to build in my life.
I will take any help I can get so please feel free to help with these questions.
- Should I strip the unit of its entire burner unit or just remove the heating element?
- I have three phase power available. I do not want to wait forever for the smoker to get to the right temp...any links to heating elements would be good. I guess I would like to have one big one rather then 2-3 three small ones long as I can control the temperature.
- It seems 4" vent on the top seems to be standard. Is that Okay?
- I should be able to put the smoke generator on the side without too many issues.
Is there anything else that needs to be done?
Sounds like an interesting project JW. I think more specifics about what you have to start with, including dimensions and pictures, would allow people to comment on your approach. We'd love to help but there's not much info in your first post.
Thanks. I should have added the pictures earlier but here they are...
(http://img689.imageshack.us/img689/7823/20100315131607.th.jpg) (http://img689.imageshack.us/i/20100315131607.jpg/)(http://img683.imageshack.us/img683/8093/20100315131504.th.jpg) (http://img683.imageshack.us/i/20100315131504.jpg/)(http://img94.imageshack.us/img94/8954/20100315131438.th.jpg) (http://img94.imageshack.us/i/20100315131438.jpg/)
I just so happen to be attempting something with a unit just about like yours. What I am doing is replacing the dial thermo with a PID controller. I amd also moving all of the dials and switches to an external box. So I won't have to open the door to make adjustments. I bought my stuff from Smokeitall you may want to talk with him about getting a heating element
If it works, I would do a test run on it.
See how hot it gets and how fast it gets there.
I am working on a box very similar to yours.
There are some great minds (not mine) on this forum that will help.
You have your self a great looking cabinet there JW! ;)
It will make an awesome smoker. You should list the interior and exterior diamentions as well.
By the looks of it, it appears to be about the same size as my large smoker. I'm running a 3000 watt 220 volt oven element in mine that is controlled by a PID. It also has another controller for a high limit safety, which I would also recommend doing.
Here is a link to my complete smoker project...
http://forum.bradleysmoker.com/index.php?topic=7616.0
Here is a link to the 3000 watt 220 volt element installation along with the high limit controller install...
http://forum.bradleysmoker.com/index.php?topic=7616.msg174922#msg174922
I think a 4" vent with a butterfly type damper in it. similar to this...
http://www.alliedkenco.com/catalog/product_info.php/cPath/89_367/products_id/1539
You can get the smoke generator and adapter plate to mount it from either Bradley or Yard & Pool.
Mike
QuoteIt also has another controller for a high limit safety, which I would also recommend doing.
Mike, That is how we do it on our industrial furnaces. Each heating zone has a temperature controller and a hi-limit controller, also each has its own thermocouple. These furnaces run anywhere from 500F up to 2500F.
When I built my PID I just used one of the alarms as a hi-limit. I set it to the point I do not want to exceed and if it reaches that temp it will open the control to the SSR. Pretty simple.
Quote from: pensrock on March 15, 2010, 01:14:28 PM
QuoteIt also has another controller for a high limit safety, which I would also recommend doing.
Mike, That is how we do it on our industrial furnaces. Each heating zone has a temperature controller and a hi-limit controller, also each has its own thermocouple. These furnaces run anywhere from 500F up to 2500F.
When I built my PID I just used one of the alarms as a hi-limit. I set it to the point I do not want to exceed and if it reaches that temp it will open the control to the SSR. Pretty simple.
Pens
Yikes! 2500 degrees... that's some serious heat!
I was thinking of doing it that way as well. I spoke to Suyi from Auber and he said it would be better to run the separate controller, TC and contactor. This way it's pretty bullet proof. If the main PID, TC or SSR fails and allows the heating element to run full throttle the 2nd controller will kill the power through the contactor which in turn shuts the system down. Suyi indicated if a SSR failed in the closed position while using the alarm on the PID for a high limit, the power could continue running to the elements. Overall cost for the 2nd controller, TC and contactor was around $50 so it was a very economical safety device for sure. In addition, because I have this in my heated garage I really want to have the piece of mind.
Mike
QuoteThis way it's pretty bullet proof.
Yep, that's why we do it that way with all our industrial furnaces.
Guys thanks for all the help so far.
Mike
I have gone through your project thread couple of times before quickly however just read the entire thing again. The proofer I am using is basically the same size and from the same company too but in a pretty good condition.
I should not have too much problem taking things part or drilling any holes however one thing I am completely lost on is all this talk of PID's and wiring.
I think I am going to get the 220 5000 watt heating element which was discussed in your project thread here is the link: http://www.sausagemaker.com/49100electricheatingelementfor100lbsmoker.aspx
I just need to know the best way to control the temperature without making things complicated so if someone can provide a link to a PID which can control this much power and help me control the temperature would be great.
I am normally always around when I BBQ or do smoked tandoori chicken so I can monitor things bit manually as well.
If I am still missing something please let me know.
If you want a non programmable PID you can't go wrong with this one (http://www.auberins.com/index.php?main_page=product_info&cPath=1&products_id=3&zenid=2235d680c2af4dd4ac043ef48dbbf226) from Auber. It's simple in the fact you just set the temp manually and the controller will maintain the temp. Plus it's only worth $44.95 which makes it pretty affordable. The PID will control a Solid State Relay or SSR. They are also available from Auber. Here's a link. (http://www.auberins.com/index.php?main_page=product_info&cPath=2&products_id=30) I would use a 40 amp SSR, although a 25 amp SSR would technically work. The element you are talking about is 5000 watts which is about 23 amps. I would tend to use the larger 40 amp SSR, they are only priced at $19 anyway. I would also use a heat-sink on the SSR, also available from Auber here (http://www.auberins.com/index.php?main_page=product_info&cPath=2&products_id=77) And... I guess you will also need a Thermocouple or TC, also available from Auber here (http://www.auberins.com/index.php?main_page=product_info&cPath=3&products_id=101) .
The PID really is not that hard to wire up. You just want to make up a wiring diagram and follow it through. Here is another link (http://www.susanminor.org/forums/showthread.php?p=504#post504) that a number of people use to build a PID for their Bradleys. It has a lot of good information on setting up the controller and you may find it helpful.
I'm not really familiar with that heating element. In their setup using that element they use airflow from a blower. You may want to check with them to see if the element requires air flow so it doesn't burn out prematurely. Their complete heating system draws in fresh air which may or may not work with the Bradley smoke Generator.
Mike
Mike,
I have sent them an email regarding the heating element. Is there another element you would suggest that should be powerful enough for this size smoker without having to wait forever? Considering you would know well since your pretty much went through this already.
As for the links you provided. I have looked at them and I think with bit of help from a friend who does electric work I might be able to pull that off too.
I see some plug n play PID's on their website. If I use one of those would I still need to do all this or simply just plug the heating element into the thing and that is it?
Quote from: justwandr on March 18, 2010, 07:08:27 AM
Mike,
I have sent them an email regarding the heating element. Is there another element you would suggest that should be powerful enough for this size smoker without having to wait forever? Considering you would know well since your pretty much went through this already.
As for the links you provided. I have looked at them and I think with bit of help from a friend who does electric work I might be able to pull that off too.
I see some plug n play PID's on their website. If I use one of those would I still need to do all this or simply just plug the heating element into the thing and that is it?
For elements it's hard to beat the price of replacement oven elements. They are cheap and usually readily available. Most are 3000 watts and there's no reason you couldn't run two of them for a total of 6000 watts if you wanted to.
The plug & play units are excellent but they are not rated high enough for this situation. I believe the highest rated plug & play units are 1800 watts.
Mike
Been really busy the last couple of days but I did find sometime to take out the burners from the proofer will post pictures later. Yes, your correct I sent Auber an email and they replied back saying 1800 is highest the plug and play units go.
I have no problem using two heating elements either as it stands the outlets are on 20 AMP breakers. Although I do have two outlets available I will check if I can upgrade one to 40 AMP. If I use two outlets would I need to have two PID's as well?
Quote from: justwandr on March 22, 2010, 11:22:36 AM
Been really busy the last couple of days but I did find sometime to take out the burners from the proofer will post pictures later. Yes, your correct I sent Auber an email and they replied back saying 1800 is highest the plug and play units go.
I have no problem using two heating elements either as it stands the outlets are on 20 AMP breakers. Although I do have two outlets available I will check if I can upgrade one to 40 AMP. If I use two outlets would I need to have two PID's as well?
I'm assuming your outlets are 220. In my opinion I think it's best to use a 4 wire 220 circuit. With the 4 wire circuit you can pickup 110 off the same circuit to run your smoke generator and the PID itself.
If you have another look at my smoker initial smoker build wiring diagram (http://forum.bradleysmoker.com/index.php?topic=7616.msg78627#msg78627) you will see I was running 2 separate power supplies, although they were 110. The PID is capable of running 2 separate SSRs.
If you wired both 220 volt, 3000 watt elements to one 40 Amp SSR it would approximately draw 27.3 amps so you would probably want the 40 amp circuit for this setup.
Mike
It has taken forever but I finally got around to doing things so I am almost done. Need to order the racks. Where did you get yours Mike?
Quote from: justwandr on April 20, 2010, 12:21:05 AM
It has taken forever but I finally got around to doing things so I am almost done. Need to order the racks. Where did you get yours Mike?
If you can get your hands on some used oven racks from a salvage yard or used appliance store. You can cut them down if you have to. The oven racks are usually fairly high grade and should work well. I've never found any other source for racks that was reasonably priced.
You could also build them out of expanded metal with an angle iron frame.
Mike
PS
You'll have toget some photos and show us how your progressing.
Thanks Mike. A friend of mine recommended I visit a resaurant supply store and get the racks from there. Luckily they did have the right size racks not entirely light duty but medium stainless steal racks that fried chicken places use to put on the sheet pans to drain the oil from chicken that sits on the racks. They fit perfectly into the proofer too. Brand new cost me about $11 each.
I had asked a local vendor to get me the hot plate kind of heating element which was 3000 watt. I went to pick it up today and he had gotten a 300 one instead :x
Anyway I saw someone was recommending the heating element from lowes somewhere in the forums. I visited lowes got the 8 inch 2600 watt heating element but now I have my doubts. It seems like it was designed for the stove top rather then oven. Is this going to work? Also is 3000 watt good enough for your proofer since both of us have the same thing.
This is a great project you got going. Can't wait to see the smoke rolling out of it.
SIA
Nice work justwandr but you asked about the element you got. It would be much easier to help you if we see what you are talking about. I am looking for a proofer also and have some ideas but you never know till you start building.
Here is the link to the heating element which I ended up getting from lowes.
http://www.lowes.com/pd_133895-2251-5304431024_0_?productId=1014263&Ntt=2600%20watt&Ntk=i_products_cascade&pl=1¤tURL=/pl__0__s?newSearch=true$Ntt=2600%20watt$y=0$x=0 (http://www.lowes.com/pd_133895-2251-5304431024_0_?productId=1014263&Ntt=2600%20watt&Ntk=i_products_cascade&pl=1¤tURL=/pl__0__s?newSearch=true$Ntt=2600%20watt$y=0$x=0)
I will take pictures of the work I have done so far and post them later.
That definetly is a top stove burner element. I think the guys doing this are using a oven element or atleast that is what I plan to use if I can find one to fit whatever cabinet I get.
Yep, that'll probably work for generating smoke, but not to heat the unit.
Aaah ok I misunderstood. I thought he was using a bradley smoke generator and the element was for heating. Yeah that will definitely work. The old plywood smokers my dad built when I was a kid use those just set on a few bricks. Then he got a one burner hotplate and that worked good till it rusted out and caught fire. We picked up one that was made out of all stainless and that one worked great for years and years. I have never seen another one like it. They probably make them stainless for resturants. I just haven't seen one.
I'm not sure which he wants it for Q, but if it's for heating I don't think it would be enough like you said, if it's just for smoke, I've seen those used a bunch of times.
Well, I guess I could be wrong, just seen a 1000 watt 110v heating element just like that one, and a 2100 watt 220v heating element. It may just work at that! The description unfortunatley didn't say how many watts or volts it was.
Yeah dad's got pretty hot of course with the wood smouldering away it also gave off heat, but those smokers were 12 feet tall and the fish was all at the top and it still cooked pretty good so they put out a fair amount of heat.
I went to some local stores in hopes of finding an oven heating element so I can get this done as I will be awfully busy for the next week. No luck at all. Does anyone know if any local stores do carry these items? I am thinking about hitting sears repair center tom but with it being sunday it seems I will be out luck there too.
I would visit an appliance repair or a resell shop for appliances.
They may let you have one out of a oven they are not going to fix.
I called up almost every oven repair place in Brooklyn yesterday and none of them wanted to sell me the part alone. I just visited sears...talked to one of the sales persons trying to sell me the oven. I got the model etc from him and he said I shoud be able to visit the sears repair center tom and get the part from them.
If you're willing to wait for shipping you can order it through sausagemaker.
www.sausagemaker.com (http://www.sausagemaker.com)
http://www.appliancepartspros.com/Appliance-Parts/WHIRLPOOL-Oven-bake-element-item-number-AP3075035.aspx
I am thinking about ordering the above heating element. I will visit the sears repair center anyhow. A friend of mine saw me working on the smoker and now he wants one too!! So the extra element won't be so extra.
Kevin that was the original plan however the element they have is too big or not big enough.
Here is a site that will help you calculate the element you need.
http://www.heatershop.com/btu_calculator.htm
I was finally able to obtain the heating elements. One is 1650 watts and the other 825watt I believe both are 220v. I have a 20 amp breaker in place so I was really concerned about not over doing it.
Here are the pics of the elements hopefully I got them right this time.
(http://img37.imageshack.us/img37/4874/20100428190341.th.jpg) (http://img37.imageshack.us/i/20100428190341.jpg/)
Uploaded with ImageShack.us (http://imageshack.us)
(http://img26.imageshack.us/img26/8520/20100428190246.th.jpg) (http://img26.imageshack.us/i/20100428190246.jpg/)
Uploaded with ImageShack.us (http://imageshack.us)
Those do look like 220V elements. That means you need to have a 220V supply line to run those.
It sounds like you have a single 20 amp breaker so you would have a 110V supply right now. The most you can run on that is a 1500 watt 110V element unless the outlet itself is a 20 amp dedicated circuit. Then you could go up to about 2000 watts 110V if you could find one.
I had a dedicated line to my garage for a built in vac system that wasn't being used. I converted it with the help of a friend who worked for hydro to 220v by splitting the power to 110v on each side to run my tablesaw and welder. Would this work for him also Hawkeye?
I am on a dedicated 20 amp 220v breaker. I actually have two of those available.
Quote from: justwandr on April 28, 2010, 06:09:29 PM
I am on a dedicated 20 amp 220v breaker. I actually have two of those available.
Just trying to make sure here. Do have 2 20A breakers or 2 double 20A breakers? A single 20A is 110V and a double 20A would be 220V.
Quote from: Quarlow on April 28, 2010, 05:54:49 PM
I had a dedicated line to my garage for a built in vac system that wasn't being used. I converted it with the help of a friend who worked for hydro to 220v by splitting the power to 110v on each side to run my tablesaw and welder. Would this work for him also Hawkeye?
Q, it sounds to me like your buddy broke a 220V down into 2 110V lines which can be done.
I just plug in a 2' x 3' x7' using the tight insulation factor and what you have
total of 2475 watts will get you about to 220*.
Is that hot enough for you?
I actually have two 220v 20 am outlets which are on their own dedicated circuits. I am not 100% sure but it seems from Mike's response that 2400 might just be enough. If there is any problem I just found from the vendor that I can also get a 3150 watt element which I should be able to run too.
anyway will try put things together tom and see if I can make something over the weekend.
I am in need of some major help! A friend of mine started doing the project as well so we decided to finish up his first. We did our best to wire things up but it didn't quite go as planned. Soon as we turned things on one of the wires got fried.
I also thought wiring things up was little complicated. Can someone please break things down for me.
I now have two heating elements when combined it is about 2500 watts.
How should these two elements be connected. What kind of wire etc...basically break down the wiring part if possible.
For some odd reason I never checked out this link which Mike provided when I started working on this project. http://www.susanminor.org/forums/showthread.php?315-PID-Controller&p=504#post504
It basically spells everything out. I am going to follow the above directions and see if I can get things right this time.
Quote from: justwandr on May 03, 2010, 07:25:20 PM
For some odd reason I never checked out this link which Mike provided when I started working on this project. http://www.susanminor.org/forums/showthread.php?315-PID-Controller&p=504#post504
It basically spells everything out. I am going to follow the above directions and see if I can get things right this time.
That link is for a 110 V setup. Your doing 220 so that is not going to work.
Take a look at this (http://forum.bradleysmoker.com/index.php?topic=7616.75)one from Mike.
If your using the 2 heating elements you posted, you will need to modify it.
This has turned from an exciting experience to an horrible experience. While drilling and taking apart things was no problem for myself. Trying to wire things has been horrible so far. I have no idea what I am doing and every time I try to follow any step step instructions they are not simply meant for me.
I contacted someone who fixes stoves, ovens etc last week. I showed him what I wanted he promised me he was going to come by on Monday and do this for me but no luck as he hasn't shown. Since I have two heating elements I am thinking about directly connecting to power separately. This way least I can get them to work and when it gets too hot or above the range I want the temp to be...I will shut the smaller of the two elements off.
Does anyone see anything wrong with that? Also a friend of mine has one element. At this point I am even willing to paypal someone for their time if they can simply provide step by step info or drawing...for simply hooking up a single element 220v to the PID etc
I know Mike has done it but he has couple of extra things in there. I keep getting lost between all those things and what I should be doing.
Easy there JW. We got some good electrians on here that will be along to help you out. Just remember these are the best folks in the world. Someone will help get you going.
Sent you an email justwandr.
How are you making out justwandr? I haven't been around for a number of days but I do try to check in every once in a while.
Mike
First thing first.
I like to thank everyone for all their help and I really have to thank HawkeyeSmokes for going way out of his way to help me with wiring diagram and the questions I had for him. Guys like him makes this community a better place for sure.
Last but not least I was able to finish up wiring the smoker almost two weeks ago but due to couple of guys taking days off at work...I have been working crazy hours. I was able to fire up the smoker yesterday and do some Jerk Chicken. It came out perfect. Was little dry that due to the fact I forgot to add the water :x
I had some friends over today as it was my day off and we did another tandoori / Jerk mix. This time I did remember to add the water...however there is a little problem I noticed.
If the leg quarters are chopped up...there is blood visible...ehh kind of little too visible to the point I saw it coming out of the bone. Is it due to the fact I smoked at a low temp of about 230?
I took some pics but can't find the usb wire to the phone...will post them once I get a chance.
Glad you got that Smoker up and going.
You are right about HawkeyeSmokes. He is a grand guy!
He has helped me out on several occasions.
I like to use 250* for chicken.