Help Required! Building a Smoker

justwandr · March 15, 2010, 09:41:34 AM

I have been on the forums for months now reading through everyones experience of building their own smokers. I have been inspired to do this myself many times only to give up on the idea later. There is lots of great help available here and I have finally decided I am going to give this a try regardless of the results.

I have been able to obtain a standard size stainless steel food warmer/proofer which works. Which is in good shape and fully insulated. I am not very good at this or have the know how considering this would definitely be one of the first things I am going to build in my life.

I will take any help I can get so please feel free to help with these questions.

- Should I strip the unit of its entire burner unit or just remove the heating element?

- I have three phase power available. I do not want to wait forever for the smoker to get to the right temp...any links to heating elements would be good. I guess I would like to have one big one rather then 2-3 three small ones long as I can control the temperature.

- It seems 4" vent on the top seems to be standard. Is that Okay?

- I should be able to put the smoke generator on the side without too many issues.

Is there anything else that needs to be done?

ArnieM · March 15, 2010, 10:09:38 AM

Sounds like an interesting project JW. I think more specifics about what you have to start with, including dimensions and pictures, would allow people to comment on your approach. We'd love to help but there's not much info in your first post.

justwandr · March 15, 2010, 11:09:20 AM

Thanks. I should have added the pictures earlier but here they are...

Tenpoint5 · March 15, 2010, 11:29:25 AM

I just so happen to be attempting something with a unit just about like yours. What I am doing is replacing the dial thermo with a PID controller. I amd also moving all of the dials and switches to an external box. So I won't have to open the door to make adjustments. I bought my stuff from Smokeitall you may want to talk with him about getting a heating element

classicrockgriller · March 15, 2010, 11:40:33 AM

If it works, I would do a test run on it.

See how hot it gets and how fast it gets there.

I am working on a box very similar to yours.

There are some great minds (not mine) on this forum that will help.

Mr Walleye · March 15, 2010, 12:37:39 PM

You have your self a great looking cabinet there JW! ;)

It will make an awesome smoker. You should list the interior and exterior diamentions as well.

By the looks of it, it appears to be about the same size as my large smoker. I'm running a 3000 watt 220 volt oven element in mine that is controlled by a PID. It also has another controller for a high limit safety, which I would also recommend doing.

Here is a link to my complete smoker project...
http://forum.bradleysmoker.com/index.php?topic=7616.0

Here is a link to the 3000 watt 220 volt element installation along with the high limit controller install...
http://forum.bradleysmoker.com/index.php?topic=7616.msg174922#msg174922

I think a 4" vent with a butterfly type damper in it. similar to this...
http://www.alliedkenco.com/catalog/product_info.php/cPath/89_367/products_id/1539

You can get the smoke generator and adapter plate to mount it from either Bradley or Yard & Pool.

Mike

pensrock · March 15, 2010, 01:14:28 PM

QuoteIt also has another controller for a high limit safety, which I would also recommend doing.

Mike, That is how we do it on our industrial furnaces. Each heating zone has a temperature controller and a hi-limit controller, also each has its own thermocouple. These furnaces run anywhere from 500F up to 2500F.
When I built my PID I just used one of the alarms as a hi-limit. I set it to the point I do not want to exceed and if it reaches that temp it will open the control to the SSR. Pretty simple.

Mr Walleye · March 15, 2010, 06:43:45 PM

Quote from: pensrock on March 15, 2010, 01:14:28 PM
QuoteIt also has another controller for a high limit safety, which I would also recommend doing.
Mike, That is how we do it on our industrial furnaces. Each heating zone has a temperature controller and a hi-limit controller, also each has its own thermocouple. These furnaces run anywhere from 500F up to 2500F.
When I built my PID I just used one of the alarms as a hi-limit. I set it to the point I do not want to exceed and if it reaches that temp it will open the control to the SSR. Pretty simple.

Pens

Yikes! 2500 degrees... that's some serious heat!

I was thinking of doing it that way as well. I spoke to Suyi from Auber and he said it would be better to run the separate controller, TC and contactor. This way it's pretty bullet proof. If the main PID, TC or SSR fails and allows the heating element to run full throttle the 2nd controller will kill the power through the contactor which in turn shuts the system down. Suyi indicated if a SSR failed in the closed position while using the alarm on the PID for a high limit, the power could continue running to the elements. Overall cost for the 2nd controller, TC and contactor was around $50 so it was a very economical safety device for sure. In addition, because I have this in my heated garage I really want to have the piece of mind.

Mike

pensrock · March 15, 2010, 06:55:55 PM

QuoteThis way it's pretty bullet proof.

Yep, that's why we do it that way with all our industrial furnaces.

justwandr · March 16, 2010, 08:33:38 PM

Guys thanks for all the help so far.

Mike

I have gone through your project thread couple of times before quickly however just read the entire thing again. The proofer I am using is basically the same size and from the same company too but in a pretty good condition.

I should not have too much problem taking things part or drilling any holes however one thing I am completely lost on is all this talk of PID's and wiring.

I think I am going to get the 220 5000 watt heating element which was discussed in your project thread here is the link: http://www.sausagemaker.com/49100electricheatingelementfor100lbsmoker.aspx

I just need to know the best way to control the temperature without making things complicated so if someone can provide a link to a PID which can control this much power and help me control the temperature would be great.

I am normally always around when I BBQ or do smoked tandoori chicken so I can monitor things bit manually as well.

If I am still missing something please let me know.

Mr Walleye · March 16, 2010, 09:15:40 PM

If you want a non programmable PID you can't go wrong with this one from Auber. It's simple in the fact you just set the temp manually and the controller will maintain the temp. Plus it's only worth $44.95 which makes it pretty affordable. The PID will control a Solid State Relay or SSR. They are also available from Auber. Here's a link. I would use a 40 amp SSR, although a 25 amp SSR would technically work. The element you are talking about is 5000 watts which is about 23 amps. I would tend to use the larger 40 amp SSR, they are only priced at $19 anyway. I would also use a heat-sink on the SSR, also available from Auber here And... I guess you will also need a Thermocouple or TC, also available from Auber here .

The PID really is not that hard to wire up. You just want to make up a wiring diagram and follow it through. Here is another link that a number of people use to build a PID for their Bradleys. It has a lot of good information on setting up the controller and you may find it helpful.

I'm not really familiar with that heating element. In their setup using that element they use airflow from a blower. You may want to check with them to see if the element requires air flow so it doesn't burn out prematurely. Their complete heating system draws in fresh air which may or may not work with the Bradley smoke Generator.

Mike

justwandr · March 18, 2010, 07:08:27 AM

Mike,

I have sent them an email regarding the heating element. Is there another element you would suggest that should be powerful enough for this size smoker without having to wait forever? Considering you would know well since your pretty much went through this already.

As for the links you provided. I have looked at them and I think with bit of help from a friend who does electric work I might be able to pull that off too.

I see some plug n play PID's on their website. If I use one of those would I still need to do all this or simply just plug the heating element into the thing and that is it?

Mr Walleye · March 18, 2010, 08:14:58 PM

Quote from: justwandr on March 18, 2010, 07:08:27 AM
Mike,

I have sent them an email regarding the heating element. Is there another element you would suggest that should be powerful enough for this size smoker without having to wait forever? Considering you would know well since your pretty much went through this already.

As for the links you provided. I have looked at them and I think with bit of help from a friend who does electric work I might be able to pull that off too.

I see some plug n play PID's on their website. If I use one of those would I still need to do all this or simply just plug the heating element into the thing and that is it?

For elements it's hard to beat the price of replacement oven elements. They are cheap and usually readily available. Most are 3000 watts and there's no reason you couldn't run two of them for a total of 6000 watts if you wanted to.

The plug & play units are excellent but they are not rated high enough for this situation. I believe the highest rated plug & play units are 1800 watts.

Mike

justwandr · March 22, 2010, 11:22:36 AM

Been really busy the last couple of days but I did find sometime to take out the burners from the proofer will post pictures later. Yes, your correct I sent Auber an email and they replied back saying 1800 is highest the plug and play units go.

I have no problem using two heating elements either as it stands the outlets are on 20 AMP breakers. Although I do have two outlets available I will check if I can upgrade one to 40 AMP. If I use two outlets would I need to have two PID's as well?

Mr Walleye · March 22, 2010, 06:38:51 PM

Quote from: justwandr on March 22, 2010, 11:22:36 AM
Been really busy the last couple of days but I did find sometime to take out the burners from the proofer will post pictures later. Yes, your correct I sent Auber an email and they replied back saying 1800 is highest the plug and play units go.

I have no problem using two heating elements either as it stands the outlets are on 20 AMP breakers. Although I do have two outlets available I will check if I can upgrade one to 40 AMP. If I use two outlets would I need to have two PID's as well?

I'm assuming your outlets are 220. In my opinion I think it's best to use a 4 wire 220 circuit. With the 4 wire circuit you can pickup 110 off the same circuit to run your smoke generator and the PID itself.
If you have another look at my smoker initial smoker build wiring diagram you will see I was running 2 separate power supplies, although they were 110. The PID is capable of running 2 separate SSRs.

If you wired both 220 volt, 3000 watt elements to one 40 Amp SSR it would approximately draw 27.3 amps so you would probably want the 40 amp circuit for this setup.

Mike