BRADLEY SMOKER | "Taste the Great Outdoors"

Bradley Smokers => The Black Bradley Smoker (BTIS1) => Topic started by: JDNC on August 21, 2010, 04:44:15 AM

Title: Two heat element mod question for Habanero Smoker
Post by: JDNC on August 21, 2010, 04:44:15 AM
I was reading a thread from Hab about using a switch for one element in a two heating element mod.  Question for Hab..are both elements using the slide switch?  I know this mod requires the use of a PID but was wondering if the slide was in the circuit and if so, have you experienced any problems with the current draw through this circuit board?

JD
Title: Re: Two heat element mod question for Habanero Smoker
Post by: Habanero Smoker on August 21, 2010, 01:34:19 PM
Hi JDNC;

I wired mine so that only the original element is being controlled by the slide temperature controller. There is at least one member that wired both through the circuit board, but I can't recall who or if he had any problems doing that. It you wire through the circuit, then I would also add an additional high temperature sensor and inline fuse for the second element. Here is how TestRocket added his, but note he did not hook up the second element through the slider switch:
Adding Additional Temp. Sensor & Inline Fuse (http://forum.bradleysmoker.com/index.php?topic=16299.msg197862#new)

I'm using the rocker switch to turn on/off the second element only. I wanted to set it up this way, because there are times I don't need to hook up my DigiQ II, and I don't need the extra heat.
Title: Re: Two heat element mod question for Habanero Smoker
Post by: TestRocket on August 22, 2010, 01:42:07 PM
JD,

When I did my mod I did think that there should be a way to put in a second slider switch instead of the rocker switch. There isn't enough room in the face plate so finding a place to mount it would the challenge (hobby box maybe).

Good luck
Title: Re: Two heat element mod question for Habanero Smoker
Post by: JDNC on August 23, 2010, 05:03:12 PM
Hab & TestRocket,

I don't know if I'll tackle this mod or not...but if I do I think I'll use the rocker switch with a different circuit bypassing the slider circuit.  I just don't know if two burners will cause more of a hot spot in the rear of the cabinet and I really don't want to tackle the fan mod.  I really haven't had a real problem but would like the advantage of a quick recovery after opening the door.  I have to admit I dread opening the door to empty or add water so I'll probably add the extra burner.

Thanks

Title: Re: Two heat element mod question for Habanero Smoker
Post by: TestRocket on August 23, 2010, 06:03:53 PM
Two thoughts:
#1 I use a PID to control and maintain cabinet temperature while running both elements and I'm happy with that setup!

#2 when I envisioned doing my mod I also had in mind that I could switch on and off the second element to help with recovery while watching any and all temperature probes to keep my cabinet temperature well below the manufactures spec of 280 degs. This would be like old school smoking where your have your eyes on the temp gauge every 15 minutes or so. (Disclaimer: Never run dual elements in a Bradley smoker without a PID and (or) constant (sober) adult supervision as it may (or might be) a fire hazard!  ;D
Title: Re: Two heat element mod question for Habanero Smoker
Post by: Habanero Smoker on August 24, 2010, 01:18:55 AM
I just want to clarify something. When I read your initial post, I understood you were thinking of running both elements through the same circuit board. Or were you thinking of adding an additional circuit board to control the second element? As you mentioned in your first post, and TestRocket reiterated, the use of a temperature control device such as a PID or the DigiQ II is highly recommended.

I ran my OBS for about five years prior to adding my second element, and I haven't noticed any difference in hot spots.  With the dual elements you are applying more heat energy for a shorter time to bring it to your ideal cooking temperature.

Are are links to instructions for the modification that may be easier to follow:
Additional Heating Element (http://www.susanminor.org/forums/showthread.php?572-Additional-Heating-Element-Modification)

Additional Heating Element with On/Off Switch (http://www.susanminor.org/forums/showthread.php?578-Additional-Heating-Element-for-OBS-with-On-Off-Control)
Title: Re: Two heat element mod question for Habanero Smoker
Post by: JDNC on August 24, 2010, 02:57:21 AM
Habs,

I was planning to do the mod as you have but I thought if I could use the slide switch to control both it might be better, safety wise (if I sell or die or someone uses it without a PID not knowing about the mod).  After really thinking this through..even if both elements were controlled by the slide I would probably still have to use my PID to control the temps as two elements would heat-up quick and cool off slow.  I quess what I'm saying is I really don't see an advantage to wiring the extra element through the slide switch now.  I'm going to use my PID anyway and as you said if something goes wrong with my PID I can switch off the extra element and use my slide to control the unit.  Yard&Pool are out of elements and have some backordered, hope they come in soon.
.
JD

Title: Re: Two heat element mod question for Habanero Smoker
Post by: JDNC on August 24, 2010, 03:12:48 AM
TestRocket,

After your mod did you notice a difference in how the two elements glowed (one brighter than the other)?  I think I read in one of the mod threads that two new elements were recommended for the mod.

JD
Title: Re: Two heat element mod question for Habanero Smoker
Post by: TestRocket on August 24, 2010, 04:35:03 AM
JDNC,

Yes, the new element is a little brighter than the one that came with the OBS but my unit was only 6 months old and I have no problem getting and maintaining temp. But hey, if you bought two you would have your old one as a backup!
Title: Re: Two heat element mod question for Habanero Smoker
Post by: dAWGS on November 16, 2010, 12:37:49 PM
i have a question.   if you install a second element with a rocker switch and just put the second element on and the original element at its lowest setting on the slide....what temps will you reach?
Title: Re: Two heat element mod question for Habanero Smoker
Post by: Habanero Smoker on November 16, 2010, 01:23:04 PM
I have to make this statement, "Installing the second element without controlling it with a PID is not recommended."

To answer your question, you won't get much higher temperature then if you had a single element. With the slider all the way to the left, that cuts almost all power to the element, you may get some warmth but not much that will add to the cabinet heat.
Title: Re: Two heat element mod question for Habanero Smoker
Post by: dAWGS on November 16, 2010, 01:25:47 PM
on a scale of 1 to 10.    how hard is the overall mod to do?
Title: Re: Two heat element mod question for Habanero Smoker
Post by: Habanero Smoker on November 16, 2010, 01:37:06 PM
If you have the right tools, I would say it is about a 5. The hardest part for me was drilling the holes in the reflector. As long as you take your time, mark the wires before you start installing, and take plenty of digital pictures prior to unhooking anything, it will go smoothly.
Title: Re: Two heat element mod question for Habanero Smoker
Post by: TestRocket on November 16, 2010, 04:36:06 PM
I concur: Getting the new element into the reflector was the hardest part. I drilled it and then used a rat tail file (round file) and worked on the holes until I could bend the reflector back enough to get it to fit inside. The next hardest part was grinding a notch in the ceramic element holders for the wires to fit. I was worried about breaking them so I took it a little at a time. After that it was just the wiring and I did install the rocker switch. If your handy with your hands and have access to a variety of tools, understand a little about AC I would say it is a 4-6 for most of us! Good Luck!
Title: Re: Two heat element mod question for Habanero Smoker
Post by: beefmann on November 16, 2010, 05:59:06 PM
test rocket and others ,

what you might consider  is adding another PID  to control the  second element,

Panasonic makes a PID with 6 outputs, that  could control 6 different items,,

http://pewa.panasonic.com/automation-controls/plc/fp-impulse-controller/specifications/

here is the link to the data sheet
Title: Re: Two heat element mod question for Habanero Smoker
Post by: starship on November 16, 2010, 08:30:59 PM
Drilling the reflector was the hardest part!  But well worth the effort.
Title: Re: Two heat element mod question for Habanero Smoker
Post by: Habanero Smoker on November 17, 2010, 01:40:20 AM
If you have a Dremel or similar tool with a few different size grinder wheels, it makes the job much easier. I used that to make the notch in the ceramic, using a thin grinding wheel at slow speed and light pressure then widen it with a small rat tail file. I also used the Dremel with a wider grinding wheel to enlarge the drilled holes in the reflector.
Title: Re: Two heat element mod question for Habanero Smoker
Post by: GusRobin on November 17, 2010, 05:49:40 AM
Quote from: beefmann on November 16, 2010, 05:59:06 PM
test rocket and others ,

what you might consider  is adding another PID  to control the  second element,

Panasonic makes a PID with 6 outputs, that  could control 6 different items,,

http://pewa.panasonic.com/automation-controls/plc/fp-impulse-controller/specifications/

here is the link to the data sheet

Not sure why you would do that? My set up is that of the mod on the forum -- both elements get their power from the plug on the cabinet. So the PID controls both by the fact that it controls the power to the plug. To me that is the minimum safety approach I would take. You can also add a fuse and shutoff sensor for the second element. I have the rocker switch so I can use only one element if I so desire. To be honest I only used the rocker switch once when I couldn't use the PID because I broke the probe wire. SO I shut off the second element and just used the single element and the slide control.
Title: Re: Two heat element mod question for Habanero Smoker
Post by: TestRocket on November 17, 2010, 06:21:23 AM
What Gus said, plus and I added the fuse and high temp sensor.
Title: Re: Two heat element mod question for Habanero Smoker
Post by: beefmann on November 17, 2010, 07:15:16 AM
simply put on a panasonic PID it  would control both heaters dropping one off as it got  close to the set temperature and then finally turning off the other, as more heat is needed  one heater  would  come on then the  other 

all this is  an option for dual heaters
Title: Re: Two heat element mod question for Habanero Smoker
Post by: TestRocket on November 17, 2010, 08:45:28 AM
Gus and I both use the Auber dual probe plug-and-play PID to control our OBS's.
Title: Re: Two heat element mod question for Habanero Smoker
Post by: smoker pete on November 17, 2010, 09:14:22 AM
Quote from: GusRobin on November 17, 2010, 05:49:40 AM
Not sure why you would do that? My set up is that of the mod on the forum -- both elements get their power from the plug on the cabinet. So the PID controls both by the fact that it controls the power to the plug. To me that is the minimum safety approach I would take.

I want to keep it simple.  Have an Auber PID and want to add the second element.  Can I take the slider/circuit board/etc totally out of the loop and just have both elements wired to the plug and use the PID to control temp?
Title: Re: Two heat element mod question for Habanero Smoker
Post by: Habanero Smoker on November 17, 2010, 01:16:03 PM
Yes! First you will need to unhook all the wires that are plugged into the circuit board (and you may have to cut off the two connectors at the end of the wires), then wire all three of those wires together. That will complete the circuit to the original element, by past the temperature control, and the pilot light should also work. If you don't care about the pilot light, that third wire that goes to the light  can be left unconnected.

Then use the wiring diagram found in Step #4 of the following link:
Additional Heating Element Modification (http://www.susanminor.org/forums/showthread.php?572-Additional-Heating-Element-Modification&p=910#post910)
Title: Re: Two heat element mod question for Habanero Smoker
Post by: TestRocket on November 17, 2010, 01:19:44 PM
Here is a PIC of what you will see with the slider still connected:

(http://i785.photobucket.com/albums/yy139/TestRocket/Bradley%20Smoker/5-OBSFrontPanelTempControlWiringpre.jpg)

If you leave the white wire connected to the lamp it will still come on when the PID is sending voltage to both elements.
Title: Re: Two heat element mod question for Habanero Smoker
Post by: starship on November 21, 2010, 04:43:58 PM
Two Pids, "trying" to control one space? Not good engineering. They would not settle in very well.

My one PID controler ( Auber 1200CPH) handles the dual elements with no problem!
Title: Re: Two heat element mod question for Habanero Smoker
Post by: GusRobin on November 21, 2010, 04:58:06 PM
Quote from: smoker pete on November 17, 2010, 09:14:22 AM
I want to keep it simple.  Have an Auber PID and want to add the second element.  Can I take the slider/circuit board/etc totally out of the loop and just have both elements wired to the plug and use the PID to control temp?

To be clear - When I installed the 2nd element I did it per the instructions on the site. I did not bypass the slider. The pid still controls both elements and the temp. So you don't need to by pass the slider if you don't want to in order to control temp. I left mine where the original element is connected to the slider and the 2nd to the on off switch. The slider is left in the far right position and the switch is in the on posisition. The PID controls the temp by turning the power to the cabinet plug on and off. Since both elements are connected to the plug, the PID controls them. I like the fact that the original is still connected to the slider and the 2nd has the on-off switch because it gives me the option of reverting to the original set up as received. I had to do this when I broke the PID probe and couldn't use the PID until I received a replacement. Since I was just starting a smoke, I was able to switch off the 2nd element and use the slider to control the original element.
Title: Re: Two heat element mod question for Habanero Smoker
Post by: starship on November 21, 2010, 05:05:03 PM
Quote
To be clear - When I installed the 2nd element I did it per the instructions on the site. I did not bypass the slider. The pid still controls both elements and the temp. So you don't need to by pass the slider if you don't want to in order to control temp. I left mine where the original element is connected to the slider and the 2nd to the on off switch. The slider is left in the far right position and the switch is in the on posisition. The PID controls the temp by turning the power to the cabinet plug on and off. Since both elements are connected to the plug, the PID controls them. I like the fact that the original is still connected to the slider and the 2nd has the on-off switch because it gives me the option of reverting to the original set up as received. I had to do this when I broke the PID probe and couldn't use the PID until I received a replacement. Since I was just starting a smoke, I was able to switch off the 2nd element and use the slider to control the original element.

That will work fine as long as the slider is MAX UP when the pid is controlling.
Title: Re: Two heat element mod question for Habanero Smoker
Post by: GusRobin on November 21, 2010, 06:42:20 PM
yes the slider is max up and controlled is by the PID