I am not sure if there is a polite way of asking this but I will ask anyway. I live in the UK and source all my beef from Scotland. I mainly buy best Aberdeen Angus steak pieces. This is fresh unpacked beef; no plastic vacuum packing, no gas, no mechanical or chemical tenderising, no drugs, just pure quality and fully traceable back to the farm it came from. For those Bradley owners living in the US and Canada I am interested to know if the beef you are using is of a similar quality to what I buy in the UK or is of the mass market tenderised and vacuum packed stuff that I keep away from in the UK. The reason I ask is that there is an enormous difference in quality and taste, this is something that I have not seen discussed on the forum but feel it can only be relevant as to how good your smoked beef turns out. I await any comments with interest. Maxon8
Hi maxon8,
If you have a nose around you will find some posts regarding meat quality, the issues in the US seem to be similar to those in the UK regarding meat quality.
I seem to remember Olds gave an explanation of USDA meat grades at some stage, I found this quite an interesting site:
www.ams.usda.gov/howtobuy/meat.htm
There are also a few posts on ageing meat which are interesting, wet ageing against dry ageing for example.
I am not sure what the differences are between chemicals, steroids and antibiotics approved for use in the US and UK are but I understand there are significant differences? It would be quite interesting to compare between the two countries.
Like you I am lucky, I live on the Isle of Man and we produce much of our own meat, there are a couple of outstanding butchers and each carcass is fully traceable back to the farm it came from. In several instances I know the farmers personally, have even worked on one of the farms and occasionally get a lamb carcass directly from the farmer.
I think the issue of quality, albeit it at a premium in terms of cost, against low cost, mass produced and processed meat is an issue on both sides of the pond, as I said in a recent post I think that is one reason wht farmer's markets are becoming more popular. More and more people want quality over the mass produced mediocre quality stuff we see so often in supermarkets.
And as with so many things in life, rubbish in equates to rubbish out, it is impossible to make poor quality meat good simply by smoking, curing, marinading or whatever else you try and do!!
Most meat in the U.S. is butchered, packed and distributed by a few commercial packagers. More often then not, meat from the supermarkets, restaurants and many local butchers, come from one of these main processing plants. My understanding is that these packers obtained their meat from large farms that use chemicals, steroids and antibiotics approved for use in the US. I have a friend who became vegetarian not because she did not like meat, but due to the conditions in which animals are raised and chemicals they feed them.
But there are more and more small farmers turning to grass and organic feed to raise their livestock, and having their meat butchered locally. Fortunately I just learned there was such a coop near where I live http://www.valleyfarmers.com/bio.htm .
I would like to thank you for your replies. I think the ability to understand quality in terms of what to buy and where to buy it from is a grey area particularly when you put into the equation what the supermarkets now throw at the consumer. I am fortunate in the fact that as a family we have three generation of knowledge relating to the food industry. The view we have is quite simple; the majority of consumers are being misled, in the process becoming trapped within an illusion of buying apparent quality. If one can break away from this then from my experience a far better product can be found at the same sort of price and in some cases less.
Maxon8
Quotethe majority of consumers are being misled, in the process becoming trapped within an illusion of buying apparent quality. If one can break away from this then from my experience a far better product can be found at the same sort of price and in some cases less
I totally agree with you, and the animals get treated better too! Don't have a problem eating meat at all but I do believe animals should be treated humanely and with compassion whilst alive. Plus less stressed equals better flavour! ;)
Personally I'm very happy with my beef. Either me or my Dad will have shot it, and I personally cut and wrapped it.
We don't use hormones, but otherwise all animals receive necessary vaccinations and medically necessary treatment. Not sure what 'chemicals' anyone is referring to.
In general there should be nothing wrong with meat quality regarding fresh cuts of whole muscle meat. There are millions of cattle slaughtered each year. Assume that perhaps there is a 20% cull rate of breeding stock, then you have about 17% of the total meat for sale coming from older cattle. Consider the amount of ground burger pre-formed patties, hot dogs, bologna, sausage rings etc that is sold, you can see where the old animals go. Any decent looking supermarket meat should be from an animal in the 18-24 month age range.
It's great if you have access to meat that you feel comfortable with regarding guaranteed quality because you have been on the farm or know the owners. If you are an average city dude I don't think you have to be worried about your meat quality.
Hope this is in line with your question, if I did not catch the drift of the post, rephrase it a bit and I'll post again I've got lots to say ;)
Also, could someone expand on what they are talking about regarding the treatment of animals???
I'll discuss organics too, if someone wants to provide their definition. I think organic certification varies greatly from region to region, so I don't want to make assumptions.
Hi whitetailfan,
I agree regarding organic farming, there seem to be significant variations on what the definition of "organic" is, call me cynical but in this day and age much of it seems to be an opportunity for supermarkets to cash in on a label and little more!
Conversely, there are a significant number of good quality reputable organic producers, IMHO the trick is to find one that you know and trust the quality whether the food is organic or not.
With regards to actual treatment of animals I would give an example. There is a beef producer for a major supermarket chain in the UK who rears his cattle and when they are approaching the slaughter date ships them 300+ miles in cramped conditions up to Scotland purely so it can appear on supermarket shelves as "Scottish" beef.
The cattle are packed tighly into wagons for the journey which will take several hours with little or no chance for food,water or exercise and hence become highly stressed.
As well as the moral aspect of this it has an effect on meat quality. Stress = adrenaline production which will affect both the tenderness and keeping quality of fresh meat, I am not an expert but this link explains it better than I ever could:
www.grandin.com/meat/cattle/cattle.meat.html
There are plenty of other examples, intensive chicken farming where the chickens leg muscles are so weak they cannot stand and the death rate from heart and other organ failure is in double figures percentage wise.
I could not be a vegetarian for the life of me but conversely I do believe that animals should be treated with compassion, dignity or whatever rather than just a commodity. I also think that vastly improves the taste! ;D
Hey Manx,
Quote from: manxman on May 19, 2006, 09:04:24 AM
call me cynical but in this day and age much of it seems to be an opportunity for supermarkets to cash in on a label and little more!
Actually Manx I think organics is a way to cash in Huge, not just a little more ;). I would estimate Big O, and not the fun O, probably goes for double or triple the equivalent food item. O Fruit is crazy expensive here. I do not buy it. Not for price, I just don't believe in it.
Quote from: manxman on May 19, 2006, 09:04:24 AM
There is a beef producer for a major supermarket chain in the UK who rears his cattle and when they are approaching the slaughter date ships them 300+ miles in cramped conditions up to Scotland purely so it can appear on supermarket shelves as "Scottish" beef.
The cattle are packed tighly into wagons for the journey which will take several hours with little or no chance for food,water or exercise and hence become highly stressed.
I would not defend this guy outright, because I don't have enough info. I do feel this is an underhanded way to get more money, but it happens in North America all the time. You can stamp something Canadian or USA as long as it was killed there and perhaps even just packaged.
I will however assume that these cattle have at least another 30-60 days to live after shipping. I don't know how close they are to slaughter of course, but assume. The reason I say this is exactly what you are saying and the article speaks to about stress. An overnight stand at an auction or any cattle liner hauling will create stress and amounts to about a 4% or greater 'shrinkage'. If this guy is so profit driven, I don't think he would allow for the animals to be taken to market or slaughtered without recovery time. He would need to get the weights back up and reduce the stress to get good grading on the carcasses.
Are there local slaughter facilities to handle the amount of cattle he has? Possible just the logistics of your meat market.
I live in the heart of the Alberta feedlot belt. There are some plants in Canada, but with our location so close to the border, a huge percentage of cattle get shipped to American slaughter plants. Economies of scale have removed local slaughter houses. Yes you and I can source out local meat and butchers, but in all the households in North America I can't even dream up the percentage of meat that moves through no more than a dozen slaughter plants.
Just my 2 cents.
Hi whitetailfan,
Quoteall the households in North America I can't even dream up the percentage of meat that moves through no more than a dozen slaughter plants.
Of course you are right, that percentage will be very high as it will be in the UK.
I am spoilt, I live on an island 32miles by 12 miles wide, we have a thriving meat (and fish) industry that exports to restaurants in London and Paris and the animals graze on hill farms and never have more than 20 miles to travel to a modern underutilised slaughter house. They are optimum conditions for meat production and in the real world economies of scale dictate this would not be practical.
Similar small set ups exist up and down the UK with family run slaughterhouses, as I am sure they do in the US and Canada but they are the exception.,
IMO there is always a balance to be struck but I feel that in general animals are treated as a profit driven commodity and that balance in general has drifted too far away from what is acceptable.
Or perhaps had........ I think the pendulum is gradually swinging back the other way because of legislation and public demand, people seem to be keen to return to "old fashion" quality. All very well but again producers will see it as simply another way of cashing in!! At least it may improve animal welfare generally!!
Think you and I are on the same side, perhaps you are just a bit more practical tham me!
Now where did I put that fillet steak for this evenings meal. Come to that...... WHERE'S THE BL**DY DOG!!!! ::) ::)
In the context of what I posted, organic meat is meat the is raised without hormones and antibiotic, and fed grass/feed grown without pesticide (chemicals) in fields that have been pesticide free for at least 5 years.
At this time I get my meat from supermarkets and Sam's, but I have been thinking of alternative sources, and I am fortunate enough to have a choice. This is not to say that I am against anyone who purchase their meat that has come from a farm factory, and a major slaughter house. I realize that is not practical, or within someones budget. I want to emphasize that I am not talking about the small farm(er).
I think that others should know that their is a movement out there by small farmers to bring a better product to the consumer. To me it is all about choice, and not judgement.
In a few weeks, I will be able to pick organic strawberries that are grown about 1.5 miles from me. Those will cost me less then what I could purchase at any supermarket. So organic is not always more expensive. I am also fortunate in that I live near an organic dairy farm that still bottles milk in glass jars. That milk, I will admit is more expensive, but I gladly pay the extra cost (including deposit on the bottle).
Speaking of organic beef, we can get "grass-fed" beef from a local farmer. It is my impression that this is a lot leaner than other beef one is liable to find at the market. So, do really lean meats lend themselves to smoking, or should they just be blasted at high temp for a short period of time. I guess you could combine those two techniques by smoking for a while at low temp and then blasting it. How do you hunters do something like venison (I have some of that too, in the freezer) - isn't that pretty lean as well?
asa
Grass fed meat is leaner, and there is less marbling, but with any meat that you smoke, the method will depend on the cut. Most meat that lends itself to good barbecuing are those cuts with a lot of connective tissue, so I would smoke both using the same method. When I purchase some I will post my findings. I may check to see what is available right now, and purchase a few cuts, before deciding if I want to purchase a 1/2 or 1/4.
The reason for my post BEEF? was to test the water and to see how well this subject is understood if at all. The view that I have is very simple, it you put the time and skill into something you believe in then it has to be equalled by the materials used in order to establish a correct foundation from which to work. In this particular case it is about the art of smoking. As I understand many people involved in smoking are trying create a unique finished product, however I can only feel that if the base material is sub standard then the overall effort and finished product will be affected.
The only way around this negative is to re-educate oneself and in the process understand what is going on in turn getting the best out of your smoker. From my experience mass market meat just does not go with the skill of smoking. Mass market poultry, pork and ham all contain excessive amounts of water due to water injection in order to up the weights by 20% and more in turn altering the whole cooking process, taste, texture and price structure. The beef is mostly aged in its own blood within the vacuum packing and is not allowed to breath and once all these products reach the shelf in cut portions they are either vacuum packed again or placed in gas filled clear top containers that artificially preserves the product. If you then take into account that the beef is mechanically or as I understand chemically tenderised by giving the animal an injection before slaughter then surely all this interference along with what you have already mentioned, feed, antibiotics, travel-stress etc., has to have a negative effect. I do not think it unreasonable to question how much better the finished smoked product might be if one sources the raw material without all this added interference in the process giving a true datum from which to cook / smoke. Ultimately the supermarket / corporate structure is working on the repetitive formula of drawing you in, breaking down your principles and beliefs in the process misleading you into thinking that they offer you the best by which time the competition has been put out of business and and your freedom of choice has gone along with any comparison. This is a very powerful and destructive mechanism that works through family generations and does the exact opposite to what it appears, it only brings down standards in every way. No matter what the supermarkets say about the quality of the products they sell; ultimately there is only a limited amount of true top quality produce in the food chain very little of which they market, which means the only thing they offer is mediocrity and the rest is hype / marketing.
At the opposite end we have ORGANIC. Some people seem to think this means quality but in reality not all organic products give satisfaction. Much of it depends how dedicated the farmer is and how much he wants to exploit the word organic. A lot of the meat offered is very good, at a price so what is the alternative. Well, the meat industry has changed massively over the last number of years so for the small scale buyer it is a matter of going hunting. The one source in UK worth looking at is the specialised small butcher / bacon cure - pork butcher and game dealer selling mainly to top end hotels and restaurants. If you are lucky they will fall towards specialised / organic end of the market. The products will be fresh, no vacuum packing equipment, no freezers or band saws, just a cool room full of quarters of beef, whole lambs and whole pigs and nothing hidden. If you are able to find this type of establisment then you might well be on the right track. If you are able to buy three months supply in bulk at a discount trade price, do the finishing and packing yourself and home freeze for a short time only you should end up spending less money and have a better product to work with. In the UK that is about the only choice we are left with other than rearing your own stock. As I say the supermarket have wiped out competition.
If anyone has any better suggestions or think that I am talking rubbish then say so!.
maxon8
Max, do you think the UK's experience with a couple of old mad cows has changed the market and it's willingness to pay more for a "safer" product and consequently made small scale organic meat production a viable economic concept?
Maxon8, thanks for your posts. I have read with interest the replies and your comments. This kind of topic can be applied to many other consumer items as well. Cheers
TomG,
I am no expert but from what I have seen the general public soon forget about the past (mad cows), in turn taking the easiest and most convenient route, supermarket shopping. Within this environment they will look at and buy the organic products, not because of mad cows but more for a general belief that it is better for you and yes they are happy to pay more.
If you then take that same person to an organic farm shop they become suspicious because they are having to think unlike the impulse buy supermarket shopping that they are used to. This becomes a massive negative to the small organic farmer / farm shop as they have a potential customer that needs educating first, not easy and yet 40 years ago this was not a problem because the supermarkets had not done the damage, everything was fresh and the thinking pure.
To your question is “small scale organic meat production a viable economic concept”. From the supermarket side yes because any losses can be offset against the profits in other areas in turn allowing them to unintelligently offer a service for as long as the demand lasts. They will ride it out to stop competition, they are very good at this but the farmer supplying them will have a rough ride. From the small farm / farm shop end I think they will end up putting in a disproportionate amount of effort for not a great return or loyal customer base and therefore the chance of expanding or the farm passing to another generation is increasingly less likely. Many UK farms are now divided into flats / houses and every farm divided is one less potential organic farm. The supermarkets are on a winner, they will control all that we do and want, we are all being misled!.
Don't blame the supermarkets for a lack of organic beef or the decrease in the small family farm. The same thing is happening in the U.S. Lets face it, the cost of living increases for everything and everyone, including the small farmer/beef producer. If you are not big you are going to have a hard time making ends meet.
As far as organic beef, along with everything else in this world, it boils down to supply and demand. I don't know about your country, but in the U.S. I can guarantee you that the vast majority of shoppers have mad cow as the absolute last thing on there mind. You are far more likely to get run over in the parking lot at the supermarket than to get mad cow beef and people here know that.
Here is typical scenerio, Ma leaves to go get some hamburger for the grill. She has a decision to make, hamburger 2.69 lb or organic 3.99 lb. She has a family of 3.5 to feed, mortage to pay, gas to buy, insurance is due and $7000 in credit card debt. She chooses hamburger at 2.69. Now you are telling me this is the supermarkets fault?
Quotethey have a potential customer that needs educating first, not easy and yet 40 years ago this was not a problem because the supermarkets had not done the damage, everything was fresh and the thinking pure.
you do realize that trends change in EVERY industry. There are more people to feed now than there were 40 years ago. If the Supermarkets did things the same way they did 40 years ago, you would be paying 3x more than you are now. What makes that better?
Most markets don't even carry Prime grades of beef. You have to be in a highly populated metro to find it and is this the Supermarkets fault-No! Two reasons mainly,
One is cost. It cost a lot more to raise beef to a prime grade. It's not just coming from a nice farm with a scenic view and a stock dam close to the grass. You will pay for that steak because of the type of feed used to achieve that grade of carcass.
Second, is because of the fat content. If you see a true Prime grade steak displayed next to a Choice grade steak along side of a Select grade of the same cut steak you will notice a big difference in the fat content. People have been educated to know that fat is not good. High cost is a huge factor also. These grades of beef have been in effect in the U.S. for many years. The Supermarkets don't set the stardards for the grades of beef, they sell the grades that the customer will buy.
What this is about is trends. Hanging beef opposed to boxed beef. Forget about hanging beef, it's still available but it's not what the customer wants.
Just remember, the next time you buy a pound of hamburger at 2.69/lb you just punched the ticket for another "mass" produced beef.
It's your fault! :o
Peace out!!!
Both jaegar and maxon8 make very valid points IMHO. :)
QuoteShe has a family of 3.5 to feed, mortage to pay, gas to buy, insurance is due and $7000 in credit card debt. She chooses hamburger at 2.69. Now you are telling me this is the supermarkets fault
The trouble is in the UK, the Social Security system is such that there are also a lot of scroungers in society. In many instances this family of 3.5 (or often 10!) will have free housing, free heating and spend the not inconsiderable amount they get in free handouts on designer clothing, the latest HD television and DVD recorder, cigarettes and beer rather than buying the best quality and nutritionally valuable food they can, particularly for the children, at a moderate increase in cost.
Don't get me wrong, there are a lot of hard working decent people on SS and they will struggle to pay the rent and bills and still provide the best food they can for the children and there but for the grace of God go many of us, but there is also a high percentage who take the mickey.
Couple that with the growing obesity problem both in the UK and US whereby a good meal is judged more on quantity than quality and the problem is not going to be resolved easily. Which is better, paying more for less quantity/more quality or paying less for more quantity/less quality!? Sadly in many areas, particularly inner city areas people don't even have a real choice any more.
Most people have forgotten about BSE, they do not care that E.Coli H0157 is more prevalent in intensively reared meat. They just want the cheapest food possible because of their priorities... an plasma screen telly is regarded as more essential than a healthy meal. And the supermarkets encourage this, they do very little to try and educate customers although I suppose it could be argued that is not their job.
However, my partner used to be a Supermarket Manager before serving in the police force in Manchester then becoming a Chartered Scientist, she has a pretty balanced view on things and keeps me in check when I get on my high horse! Supermarkets in my view are takers, they are purely profit driven with almost total disregard for customers, and in many instances staff. A good friend of mine is also in supermarket management and some of the practices that take place are scary to say the least. :o
Still, I use supermarkets to a large extent, we all have to. But I don't use them for fresh meat or fish, I use the butcher of fishmonger. I am lucky, I have access to both but many people don't because, in the main, the supermarkets have put them out of business.
One good thing is that many of the well known chefs here in the UK are doing a lot to change things by various means and I do believe the pendulum is SLOOOOWLY beginning to swing the other way. Not before there will be more BSE/E.Coli etc scares though! The consumer does has a lot to answer for but the supermarket must also accept a large share of the blame. Which came first..... the chicken or the egg!? ::) Probably salmonella contaminated in any case! ::)
Great topic....... and a massive subject! Thanks for starting it maxon8! ;D
I've read this thread a couple of times with interest. I'm an organic gardener. I make my own growth containers. What I grow does it taste any better than what I can purchase? You betcha it does. Does it cost more? That depends upon how you do it. That depends upon your definition of cost which is reflected by the desire results you wish to attain.
Allow me to explain. There are two restaurants. Both sell beef. Both sell a salad. Both have a potato. Both have someone to take your order, and even give you change back. One restaurant is called McDonald's Hamburgers. The other is Ruth's Steak House.
It should be clear to all that what cost more is not relevant when you factor in your desired result. It is only relevant if you pay more for it than from another outlet.
I'm not going to take this any further as there are just to many variables to discuss. I will tell you this. That once investment is made in my type of organic gardening within 3-5 years you will break even with chemical growing.
However, on the other hand think about this: We as a people are now living not only longer than anyone else in history... we are healthier. This is an apologia that one would have a hard time defeating. Your beef, my beef, your tomato, my tomato, it is only important when you factor in your desired result. A desired result that another person may not look upon favorably.
Olds
Quoteas there are just to many variables to discuss.
You are right there Olds, permutations are almost infinite!
I would perhaps argue somewhat with regards the healthier bit. Yes, people are living longer but not necessarily healthier or have a healthier lifestyle. One of the main factors is that medical science can prolong life much more efficiently. Clog up your arteries with cholesterol...... no problem, have bypass surgery!! Obesity...... no problem, have your stomach stapled and liposuction. Drink you liver into a cirrhotic mass..... no problem, whip it out and put another in! If that all sounds a bit glib then I am sorry, I work in a hospital and have a "gallows" sense of humour! There are so many people that are in control of their own destiny and waste that precious commodity of life. :-[
On the other hand mercifully many cancer patients typically live much longer, many illnesses that were a death sentence only a few years ago are now not only treatable but curable and that is all down to medical science. Leukaemia is one such example.
However, several reports appearing in the UK say that because of the obesity problem in children and increasingly sedentary lifestyle many parents will outlive their children. Alarmist perhaps but does give food for thought.
I personnally think the general health of the younger population is worse than a generation ago and that will become more apparent in years to come, many children nowadays never get the chance to walk to school, never mind do hard physical exercise.
In the UK they currently spend just less than £0.60/$1 per child per day on school dinners, that is significantly less than the murderers, rapists and other criminals dinner allowance in UK prisons!! That is a statistic this country should be ashamed of, there is something wrong somewhere!
Interesting subject..........
I would like to thank you for all your replies and comments. The discussion has expanded into many unexpected directions and the intellect applied has been considerable, it has even got me confused!. Each and every comment is relevant and the potential variables built upon these views are many.
We have gone from “Beef?” right up through a thought process touching on political. Heavy!.
There is one common link between everything, I would like to remove this common link as I believe this is where the problem lies. At first this might well put me in the “nutty section”, however I would be interested in reading your views, I just might have a point.
What would happen if the world economy of money stopped, no more money. You might well laugh but if it were then to evolve into a barter system what would happen?. Do not forget the money system evolved from bartering so why not go back there.
I realise this takes things to a very hypothetical level. I believe that the monetary system as a mathematical formula has created an unstoppable self perpetuating mechanism that only survives on total inefficiency in order to keep itself alive and that interference at every level helps the formula of profit and loss to always be in an infinite conflict for the simple reason that all monetary transaction have three main components, the buyer, the seller and the money accountability. Bartering only has two, I am sure the beef would be better and life in general more realistic. Think about it!.
maxon8
QuoteWhat would happen if the world economy of money stopped, no more money.
Wow, now it really is getting heavy!! ;)
On a small scale I barter regularly, smoked food for steak, seafood for wine etc and it works very well and in essence you get and "pay" for items what both parties feel is a fair amount.
If I arrange to swap some lobster for steak and someone takes the mickey and gives me a scrawny rib eye steak the size of a postage stamp for a couple of lobsters I don't deal with him again. Easy because I get to choose who I barter with!
Apply this on a global scale........... you don't get to choose who you have to deal with, the world would still be full of the haves and have nots, the greedy and the not greedy, the powerful and the weak. The same nations who have money would be in the strongest position to barter, the weakest nations who have nothing to barter still reliant on scraps from the rich nations.
Powerful people would still be on the fiddle, politicians would still play politics with peoples lives and from a practical point of view bartering on the internet would be interesting!! Bartering is from an era when most business was done locally with someone you knew, not even just within the boundaries of a country, but within a county/state, a town or a village. I can't see how it would work on a global scale?
If we evolved into a barter system for whatever reason I just feel the rich and the powerful would soon engineer it to suite their own needs just the same and it would probably evolve back into a monetary system pretty quickly, because that is the easiest way for the rich and powerful to become more rich and powerful, be it individuals or nations.
No simple answers unfortunately!
manxman,
Interesting reply and I agree with you.
The one point that I hoped someone would make and you have is; “Bartering is from an era when most business was done locally with someone you knew, not even just within the boundaries of a country, but within a county/state, a town or a village”. I believe that if the very real problem of energy shortages starts to bite then inevitably the cost of living will continue to increase, this is a problem that is starting to raise its head in Europe. The result being that people might just start to review the way in which they live in turn sourcing produce on a local level in turn supporting local business and hopefully organic farms.
Like you I can only see bartering continuing to happen within a local village type community and that might well increase as the monetary system is challenged by ever increasing environmental factors, the most challenging being water shortage. If one sells / barters locally grown produce within ones own community you have the advantage of keeping the water that is contained within unlike a product that is sold outside the area from which it is grown.
I think it is time to draw the post “Beef?” to a close before we become unpopular; maybe it has already happened!.
maxon8
Quote from: maxon8 on May 22, 2006, 03:58:44 PM
I think it is time to draw the post "Beef?" to a close before we become unpopular; maybe it has already happened!.
maxon8
Naw. No problemo. Although I think I may have heard a voice say "where's the beef?" - but don't let it worry you - chew on.
Maxon8;
Although I have not contributed much to this thread I enjoy reading it.
Quotethink it is time to draw the post "Beef?" to a close before we become unpopular; maybe it has already happened!.
Would'nt worry about that maxon8, if you look at the number of "reads" it seems to have attracted a fair bit of attention and interest.
To me the read rate is often more indicative of interest rather than reply rate whether people agree of disagree, at least it may have provoked some off line thought and discussions. Strangely enough i have been away on business for a couple of days visiting a hospital in South Wales and one of the main topics of discussion, not initiated by me, was this very subject.
Now back to beef, I have about 6lb of fillet steak bits, the offcuts from when the local butcher was cutting up his fillet steaks which I bartered for through a friend of a friend.
The question is....... what to do with them? Fajitas, casserole, steak and guinness pie? Ideas anyone?! ???
I believe there is a great deal of interest in this subject. I can't believe that the area that I live in is so unique. The other day I was listening to an interview of an author named Michael Pollen who wrote "The Omnivore's Dilemma : A Natural History of Four Meals". He addresses some of the issues that were discussed in this thread. People wanting to change their eating habits, but points out the difficulties in achieving that. I might just order this book http://www.amazon.com/gp/product/1594200823/103-9677598-3797424?v=glance&n=283155 ; along with the book Manxman recommended some time ago.
Quote from: manxman on May 24, 2006, 02:41:20 AM
Quotethink it is time to draw the post “Beef?” to a close before we become unpopular; maybe it has already happened!.
Now back to beef, I have about 6lb of fillet steak bits, the offcuts from when the local butcher was cutting up his fillet steaks which I bartered for through a friend of a friend.
The question is....... what to do with them? Fajitas, casserole, steak and guinness pie? Ideas anyone?! ???
If it were me; all of the above.
QuotePeople wanting to change their eating habits, but points out the difficulties in achieving that.
That's a very good point HS.
The book I mentioned in this instance was The River Cottage Meat Book:
http://www.rivercottage.net/rcv2/shop/books.jsp?shop=bookRc&filter=hugh
and scroll down a little way.
Also see:
www.rivercottage.net
for more information. I think JJC went and bought it soon afterwards on Amazon and I seem to remember he was highly impressed with it.
Quote from: manxman on May 24, 2006, 03:55:43 AM
QuotePeople wanting to change their eating habits, but points out the difficulties in achieving that.
That's a very good point HS.
The book I mentioned in this instance was The River Cottage Meat Book:
http://www.rivercottage.net/rcv2/shop/books.jsp?shop=bookRc&filter=hugh
and scroll down a little way.
Also see:
www.rivercottage.net
for more information. I think JJC went and bought it soon afterwards on Amazon and I seem to remember he was highly impressed with it.
Good info Manx. Thanks for the threads. Another one that was kind of interesting was the "History of Food". It tells of the swings man has made over centuries on eating habits. I'll find the author when I can.
Quote"History of Food".
I would be interested in further details if and when you have time Iceman, thanks. :)
Manxman;
JJC did mention it to me, and thought highly or it. He peaked my interest in this area, and when I began looking for locally grown meat, I quickly found how available it was to me.
QuoteThe question is....... what to do with them? Fajitas, casserole, steak and guinness pie? Ideas anyone?!
This sounds very interesting, please share!!! :)
I just got my keg filled-Oh Yeah it's stout
QuoteThis sounds very interesting, please share!!!
I have eaten Steak and Guinness pie on quite a few occasions but never made one myself. Done a bit of research and have narrowed it down to one of two recipes.
http://www.jamieoliver.com/recipes/2004/09/30/good_old_steak_a.php
http://www.irishcountrykitchen.com/main/steak_guinness.php
Fancy doing it with puff pastry rather than shortcrust pastry.
This thread makes me realize how blessed I am to live in amish country. Sometimes I take for granted all
of the great resources here, from a culture that the rest of the country has left behind. The capons are
great, especially when you baste 'em down with a little amish roll butter. Whenever we have company
that's staying for breakfast I run down the road and grab some fresh eggs. No one ever believes that
there was nothing done to the eggs. The birds we get might not be as breasty as the ones from
Wallyworld, but that a compromise I'm willing to live with to have a steroid and antibiotic free meal.
Quote from: manxman on May 24, 2006, 02:41:20 AM
QuoteNow back to beef, I have about 6lb of fillet steak bits, the offcuts from when the local butcher was cutting up his fillet steaks which I bartered for through a friend of a friend.
The question is....... what to do with them? Fajitas, casserole, steak and guinness pie? Ideas anyone?! ???
These sound wonderful. I don't know how big they are but this is what I might try with them. Salt and pepper lightly. Sear at as high a temp as possible, getting as much browning of the outside as you can without overcooking the inside. Then serve with a well-cooked saute (in butter) of mushrooms and garlic, with some sweet onion thrown in as well. Some really fresh, boiled new potatoes on the side with butter and parsley would go well with this. Anyway, you can't go wrong with this beef, as long as you don't overcook it while you're developing the surface flavor by searing, or cover it up with too many other stronger flavors. That is why I would choose mushrooms and potatoes, with a little garlic and onion for spice.
QuoteThese sound wonderful. I don't know how big they are but this is what I might try with them. Salt and pepper lightly. Sear at as high a temp as possible, getting as much browning of the outside as you can without overcooking the inside. Then serve with a well-cooked saute (in butter) of mushrooms and garlic, with some sweet onion thrown in as well. Some really fresh, boiled new potatoes on the side with butter and parsley would go well with this. Anyway, you can't go wrong with this beef, as long as you don't overcook it while you're developing the surface flavor by searing, or cover it up with too many other stronger flavors. That is why I would choose mushrooms and potatoes, with a little garlic and onion for spice.
Thanks Asa....... something else to add to my list! ;D
Quote from: manxman on May 25, 2006, 11:18:37 AM
QuoteThanks Asa....... something else to add to my list! ;D
If you try it, let us know how it turns out. Makes me hungry just thinking about the possibilities with that good, tender beef.
Sorry I have not kept up with this thread and as such I wish to add my 2-cents worth concern the following idea:
QuoteWhat would happen if the world economy of money stopped, no more money. You might well laugh but if it were then to evolve into a barter system what would happen?. Do not forget the money system evolved from bartering so why not go back there.
The return to a barter system IMO would throw the world into chaos. The reason people normally barter is to get around paying taxes. No taxes then no goverment. No taxes then no social services. No taxes then no army to defend your country. At best the world would then be ruled by the law of the jungle: Only the strong survive.
At worse all liberties would be lost as totalitarian regimes would form. Regimes that would strive to crush all efforts to create autonomous institutions in its drive to seize the human soul--a caste system of the likes the world has never seen would be the rule of the day. From utter absolutism to complete slavery. Slavery where even the young would "prey" on the old.
On the other hand the monetary system we have today, while not perfect, is an equalizer. It is the means of transmission for our world and local economies. It levels the playing field of economics--the world's production, distribution, and consumption of goods and services no matter where the consummer resides. It protects the weak from the strong and insures our freedom's.
It is for the aforementioned reasons that our monetary system not only evolved from bartering, but has survived. Yes the world's monetary system is not perfect, but it beats the option. The day of the barter system is long since gone.
Ok you all can go back to the beef... :D
Olds
QuoteAt worse all liberties would be lost as totalitarian regimes would form. Regimes that would strive to crush all efforts to create autonomous institutions in its drive to seize the human soul--a caste system of the likes the world has never seen would be the rule of the day. From utter absolutism to complete slavery. Slavery where even the young would "prey" on the old.
No "sitting on the fence" on this subject from Olds!!!! ;D ;D ;D