WET -- FTCing Prime Rib (Standing Roast)

[Oldman]

Rather than reply to the other thread concerning FTCing a P-rib I thought I would post a new thread as the topic is a little different.

As acords stated:

I personally wouldn't FTC standing rib roast.  FTC works well when the piece of meat is brought up a higher internal temp.  I would however "tent" it and let it rest for 15-20 minutes.  Just MHO, maybe someone else will weigh in on this.

I agree with acords' statement.

HOWEVER, you can wet "FTC" if you want. As I've stated in other postings, our FTC I've know by the term passive cooking for years. I used it from vegetables to meats.  You come to my place and if I'm the cook that night you will see almost all items being finished off in a passive oven.

OK let's get on to the wet "FTC" (passive cooking) of a Prime Rib. There are two reason why I FTC a P-rib. First is a time-line. Nothing I hate worst than having a group over and the meat tells me when we have to stop having fun and sit down to eat. A passive cooker is a cooker of diminishing calories so it can allow me from an hour to hours or so leeway depending upon the meat's temperature when I place the meat in the cooler.

However, the real reason is I make my own Au Jus. It is the real deal. The finest you will ever be graciously allowed to taste. (If I sound like I'm ragging on my Au Jus--I am!)  Now once my base beef stock is ready with seasonings I will place into a cooler my Prime rib which is normally around 130F - 135F.  The beef stock will be under a slow boil. There will be enough of it to cover  3/4 of the rib. I pour this hot beef stock over the rib. The rib will now continue to cook and pick up the favoring of the stock and spices; plus it will add the "real" beef" flavoring to the Au Jus.

This last Christmas I did a full rib for my family one county south of me. I pulled it out at 120 F (if I remember correctly) Wet FTCed it, drove down and 4 hours later we cut it and it was 140F.

Now for those you serve that want it med done just bring up some of the Au Jus to a soft boil and drop their piece in it for just few seconds. It will darken the meat. Ya it is not really med-done, but you will be shocked at the number of folks that are really eating a med-rare that say this is the best med-done beef they have ever had in their life.  No kidding. Try it~~!

So what to do with all of that left over Au Jus? Does real Beef Vegetable soup sound good to you? Secret: Cook your vegetable not in the Au Jus. Why? The higher heat will kill the flavor of the Au Jus. I do my vegs and beef shank meat in one pot using a little seasoning.  When that meat is done I allow the water it was in to boil down (render.) Now bring the vegs & meat & that rendered down beef water bring to a slow boil and reduce to 190 F.  Under very high heat bring your Au Jus up to 190 F. DO NOT ALLOW IT TO BOIL! Warning: If you bring up your real Au Jus to heat under a low heat source you can sour it.... and spend a day or so in the outhouse.

Add hot Au Jus to heated veg & meat. Adjust for any seasoning and enjoy. EDIT HERE: Flash boil all together 30 seconds and remove from heat.

OK... now you all know all that I know LOL....which is not much!

Try the WET FTC and if you need to know how to make a real stock to work with let me know.
Olds

[winemakers]

Olds,

We handled individual slices of p'rib like that in a steakhouse I worked in in my youthfull slave labor days.  Works like a dream, everyone gets their choice of doneness, and we don't have to watch the ahhem, well done eaters chew leather.

mld

[BigSmoker]

Thanks Olds great info 8) 8) 8).

[iceman]

That was some wonderful info there Old's. Thank you for once again sharing with us. I would really like to talk to you more about your Au Jus if you get the chance. I have never made a REALLY good one, just ones that were ok.

[Oldman]

iceman,
The trick to a great Au Jus is the base stock. It is a natural stock that can be turned into: chicken gravy, beef gravy, pork gravy, soups, and Au Jus.

When I was a young man working in big houses just about everything went into the stock pot. These would be self heat kettles of around 50 gallons.

What you can put into a stock pot:
Chicken bones--no fat or skin (no more that 1/3 chicken bones to beef bones.)
Pork bones & scrap cuts (keep fat to a bare minimum) (no more that 1/3 pork bones to beef bones.)
beef bones  & scrap cuts (keep fat to a bare minimum)
Note: if you are using both chicken and pork bones then no more than 1/3 total to 2/3 beef bones.
carrot ends
celery ends
egg shells (no egg yokes, but egg whites are ok. If you don't have any shells saved what I do is remove the yoke and add the crusted shells and egg whites. In a 16 qt pot I don't add more than 3 shells and whites.)
onions and onion skins & end pieces.

What you cannot put into a stock pot:
Tomato pieces
Potato skins
Nothing starchy
Greens (The tops of beets is ok, but no more than two.)

Now when I make my stock I have already saved any chicken, pork and beef bones that I have boned out. I take a large pot add all of my ingredients & I will add some beef--normally I will use the cheapest cut of beef I can find. 2 to 3 pounds cut up into small pieces add water and bring to a hard boil. Reduce to a simmer and allow it to cook for at least 12 hours (add water as needed) to up to 24 hours. Note if you use egg shells the sulfer will stink at first. Don't worry about it.

Next I strain this twice through white soda towels. Allow it to cool so I can remove any grease that is on the top. It should look like watered down tea.  Return to high heat and boil. Reduce to simmer. As to salt and pepper I use Worcestershire sauce for the pepper. It is here you really have to be careful. A little to much Worcestershire sauce and you will throw out your stock. Add it a little at a time tasting the stock as you go along. You want just a hint of Worcestershire sauce flavor. And I mean just a hint of it. As for salt see if you can find a beef soup base. Minor's is the best but it is very expensive as it is a natural base. If you cannot find a good base then use a quality beef bullion. If you use the cheap stuff it will add an artificial taste. Again you have to be careful here. You are not making beef soup so add just enough for a light salt taste. Just as you are going to add the stock to the P-rib is when you add the Worcestershire sauce to your stock. Do not allow it to go to a hard boil or cook for any length of time.

When you are ready to place the P-rib into the cooler bring up your mixture to 190F. Once you place the P-rib into the cooler take a fork and all over the outside poke holes into it and into the meat about 1/4 inch deep. Next reserve a little of your stock. Take the rest and pour your stock over the meat and after 30 minutes turn the meat upside down if you did not make enough stock to cover it. During this time take the drippings from the roast and scrap them into the reserved stock. Bring to a boil quickly. Remove and strain.  Using a few slices of bread soak up any grease. Add to cooler.

I have found that if I salted the outside of the P-rib as most do then the end product is way to salty.  I've been doing my P-ribs like this for 25 years. Now I only do a rib a couple times per year and this is why I make so much more stock / Au Jus than what is really needed. Bag it and freeze it.

This is the basics for my Au Jus. The stock and the Wet FTC of the P-rib = the best Au Jus you have ever had. One without the other = nothing. You will have to play with it some before you get it like you want.

I hope this helps put you on the road to not only a great Au Jus, but the best beef vegtable soup of your life.

Olds

EDIT: If you have a lot more chicken and pork bones then needed you can boil them off for many hours. If you have enough bones etc. that stock when cooled will look and act like white jello.  I use this type of stock as the water for my chicken noodle soup. (Make my noodles by hand like my grandmother did from Poland. Hard work but they are the best.)

Keep in mind you do not need chicken or pork bones in your stock for the Au Jus. The only time I use them is if I come up short on the beef bones / meat in the "Au Jus" stock.

[iceman]

Old's;
I can not thank you enough for this information. You have inspired me to get back to making something I  pretty much had given up on. Prime rib and Au Jus is one of Anns favorite meals. Thanks again my friend.

[Jezziebella]

Wow,
   Thanks Oldman.  The timing issue always has me a little spooked.
   About the base for the au jus; since I haven't been saving bones maybe my butcher can give me some.  Are there particular bones I might ask for?  For some bases I've roasted bones first. Not good in this case?  Are the eggshells for clarity and must I use them?  Also keeping it to a simmer and not boiling, is that for clarity too, or some other reason. ???

P.S.  Nobody's commented on "prime" vs. "choice" prime rib.  :-*

[iceman]

P.S.  Nobody's commented on "prime" vs. "choice" prime rib.  :-*

Unfortunatly for most prime is not an option. Those cuts are usually reserved for the upper end food establishments and not available to the general public up here. I do have an account with Food Services of America and can get prime meat. It is better than choice but you pay for it dearly. I will splurge once in awhile and buy a beef tenderloin for something special but as far as rib roasts go I stick to choice at my favorite butcher shop. If your in good with the butcher you can end up with some nice rib roasts that are very tasty. I'm not sure how available prime is in the lower 48 but it is getting very hard to come by in Alaska at the retail level.

[Oldman]

Old's;
I can not thank you enough for this information. You have inspired me to get back to making something I  pretty much had given up on. Prime rib and Au Jus is one of Anns favorite meals. Thanks again my friend.

No problem and that will be 50 cents please  ;D

Are there particular bones I might ask for?

There is a place down the street from us that has the toughest (utility grade) beef short ribs you can imagine. About two bucks per pound. If he is out then I get a 7 bone chuck steak-- 2 to 3 pounds.  Bones by themselves are not enough.

I've roasted bones first. Not good in this case?

I have no idea. When I was working in the big houses they cut there own meat and the bones went into the pot.

Are the eggshells for clarity and must I use them? 

I knew someone would ask about the shells. No you don't have to use them. As to clarity who can say?

Also keeping it to a simmer and not boiling, is that for clarity too, or some other reason.

I idea is to extract as much of the flavors from the items (especially the bones) as possible. This is not a fast process. As such if you keep it under a hard boil you are alway adding more water. That cools your pot and add more to the process.  Generally I will put on the pot around 6 pm and I will be hanged if I'm going to stay up all night adding water. Furthermore, high heat IMO will kill certain flavorings or change them.

P.S.  Nobody's commented on "prime" vs. "choice" prime rib.

Iceman is on spot with his answer. While I can get Prime grade I rather use a Black Angus Choice grade. I will wet age it from 15 to 30 days. At that point IMO it is as tender if not more that Prime and it has just as good a taste.

In fact the best Prime Grade Black Angus steak house in the Tampa bay area serves an aged choice grade prime rib  rather than prime grade and it is second to none, with the except of mine of course.  ;)

Now remember in the big houses this stock was the basis for many items, not just Au Jus. Through trial and error I have modded it to my liking for Au Jus. BTW I always add egg shells and the whites. It just seems kick it up a bit.

The idea here for sharing all of this is two fold.  ONE: If you are not composting your vegetable waste, egg shells  (coffee / tea grounds etc.) TWO: then at least take the veg waste bag it, freeze it until you have enough and then make a good base stock. Freeze that. You will be surprised at what that stock will do for your next turkey, pork or hot roast beef sandwich gravy. You will find that you will be using it in a lot of things to the point you will say...crap I'm out.

On your everyday stock just make sure to try and keep the items balanced. If your stock is to rich then water it down before you use it. The idea of an everyday stock is to give the item being cook more body and a foundation of base flavorings that add not over power.

And NO TOMATO...or you will turn it into a vegetable soup stock.
Olds

[winemakers]

Be'in a cheap son'o'gun, we use a lot of chicken stock.  Cooked low and slow till the collegens all render into the chicken bone/fat, veg. selection.  Gelitinizes when chilled, skim the fat, and freeze.  I often freeze a bunch in ice cube trays, then wrap and bulk freeze.  Just the thing for a small sauce or pick-me-up for a flat dish.  Never use water for rice, grain pilaf, etc, always stock, and as you said Olds, curse when the supply is gone.

mld

[iceman]

Your not alone winemakers. I use chicken stock like there's no tomorrow. I've even started replacing most of the cream in my mashed taters with it to help keep the ole belly tire down to a minimum. Ann and I have been eating more and more chicken and trying to cut down a bit on the red meat (doc said to). Even the 4 legged furry kids get chicken mixed in with the meals along with a little stock. I still have to get my beef fix on a regular basis but we've been eating more poultry and pork than we used to.

[Jezziebella]

Hey Olds,
   I just looked up Minors' bases online, thanks for the tip.  While browsing Soupbase.com. I also happened upon a concentrated au jus also made by Minors.  Is it any good?  I've tried some concentrates before and they were awful, really salty and weird tasting.  Could you wet FTC with that or would it be just too much?  I'm all up for doing stocks etc. in the Fall/Winter months, but get really lazy in the summer.  I'm not real good at delayed gratification  ;) so the whole low and slow bit about does me in.   Thank God the results are worth it! :-* 

[Oldman]

I also happened upon a concentrated au jus also made by Minors.

Sorry I have never used that.  Once I stop cooking for a living I stopped using their soup base, as I can make my own.

Could you wet FTC with that or would it be just too much?

I don't know.

Your not alone winemakers. I use chicken stock like there's no tomorrow.

When I want to make a big pot of chicken stock I get chicken backs. They are cheap here and man do they ever give you a great flavor. The last ones cost me 49 cents per pound.

Oh talking about cheap...sometimes they will have larger hine-quarters on sale for 39 cents per pound.  I only tried them one time--YUCK those birds had been fed fish-meal and you could taste the fish--DOUBLE YUCK~~!