Tender Ribs

[floaty]

Hello to all,
I can't seem to get my ribs at the right tenderness.  I've read several posts on how to get them tender and and have tried a few of the techniques. I must be doing something wrong.

Heres what I've done in the past:

Peel off membrane and apply dry rub the night before.  place in fridge overnight.

Next morning place my
4 slabs of ribs smoked 6 hrs at 190 to 200 degrees.

every hr apply a spritz of apple juice onto the ribs.

take them out of the OBS put them in aluminum pan, cover with foil, and place in oven for 2 hrs at 185 degrees.

They taste fine, really good actually,  and they aren't tough by any means...however, they are also not as tender as I would like.  The consistency i am trying to acheive is just above keeping the meat from falling off the bone.  Close to falling off the bone but not quite.

I have also used the FTC method instead of the oven method mentioned above.  Same results.  With FTC method, I left them in the cooler for appx. 2 hrs.

Any suggestions on what I could be doing wrong?
Thanks! 

[Gizmo]

You didn't mention putting in any liquid in the foil pan.  This is what I recommend.

Try smoke for 4 hours between 200 and 210 degrees, then pull and boat with a little apple juice (about 1/8 inch) in the bottom, and cover.  You can also use a little Jack Daniels or beer or add BBQ sauce if you like them "WET".  After putting in the oven, keep the same temperature of 200 degrees for 2 or 3 hours.  You can turn off the oven and let them sit until you are ready to serve.  If you want, you can pull them and run then on a high grill for a couple minutes to crisp up any BBQ sauce if you used it.  This is usually a difficult task and the bones should be falling right on out. 

[acords]

I usually finish ribs in the oven for 2-3 hours, AND FTC for a couple of hours

[LilSmoker]

Hi floaty, sometimes certain rubs when left overnight can draw on the meat making it dry, especially if the rub contains salt, this has been mentioned on another recent thread. If you're rub contains a lot of salt, maybe exclude it from the rub, or cut down on the marinade time?

As Giz has said, liquid is key when foiling or FTC, sometimes i finish ribs in the crockpot with sauce or a mix of apple juice and honey, usually they fall apart when removed from the crockpot

Ribs take a lot of tweaking etc, but it sounds like you're almost there.........LilSmoker

[kiyotei]

you can also try brining the ribs.  I do this and it seems to help.  I've also found applying a slather to the ribs before smoking helps keep them moist.  I use a mixture of yellow mustard, maple syrup, and worchestershire sauce.  the syrup really adds a nice flavor on the finished ribs.

[Consiglieri]

I like what you've described as your method.  I'm thinking that the lack of tenderness may just be a need for some additional cooking at a higher heat.  I cook at a temp between 210 and 220F.  Also, although I use 6 hours a rule of thumb (and then FTC for a couple more), I look at a number of different factors to determine if the ribs are done/tender.

Here's some ideas for checking if the ribs are done before you FTC or do some other finish technique like boating:

Approprate internal temperature
Cooking time about 6 hours at 210
Color consistent with adequate cooking
meat pulling back away from the ends of the bones
Limpness (don't know what else to call it): the tendency of the rack of ribs to droop towards the ground when you hold one end
The ability to push a toothpick through the rack without much effort
If you're hungry, no one's looking, and you can trim up the rack to hide what you've done, the ability to pull off some meat or a rib with little effort.


Here's a summary of the different rib cooking techniques I've read on this site: 

(see reply #3 at this link)  http://forum.bradleysmoker.com/index.php?topic=5348.msg49957

[floaty]

Thanks for all the tips!  I knew I could count on you guys to give me the best advice.  I am going to go with consigliari's advice and try to cook a bit longer.  I'm also going to add more apple juice during the last part of the process as i place them in the oven.  I'm also thinking I should have FTC'ed'em a little longer. 
I have the out-laws... *cough*...ahem, IN-LAWS coming in next weekend and they have already requested the "RIBFEST" as i like to call it.
I will let you know how goes it.
hasta luego,
Floaty

[gDub]

With my old offset barrel smoker I used to cook the ribs in the oven at about 200 for 2 hours boated on a bed of onions and then tranfer to the smoker.  The onions are full of moisture and as they breakdown they leave a lot of juice in the pan. They Just fall off the bone. Can't wait to try this in my BS

[floaty]

UPDATE!  Had a great smoke..tried the suggestions given to me on this thread and everyone loved the ribs. Still not quite the tenderness that I was trying for though. 
Scenario:
got ribs to room temp.  Applied the rub an hour before putting in OBS.  Preheated OBS to 200 degrees.  Put the ribs in for 4 1/2 hrs.  Every hour spritzed them with apple juice. 
Took them out of OBS, placed in aluminum pan filled with a little apple juice and a very thin watery style bbq sauce. Covered with Aluminum foil. Placed them in oven at 195 degrees for 3 hours.   Came out very very tasty.  Close to being pulled right off the bone but not quite.
I guess what I want is to be able to grab a bone with on hand, grab the next bone with my other hand and be able to pull the rib apart. 
I'm having to slice through the ribs with a knife.  They are tender but not like I want.  Next time, i'm going to try FTC'ing them for 4 or 5 hrs.

[Wildcat]

Keep us posted on this.  I prefer my ribs to be tender but stay on the bone cause I like to eat them with my fingers, but I do have a couple of old friends that need them to fall off the bone melt in your mouth since they do not have much in the way of teeth.  I have not managed to get it to that stage yet.

[kiyotei]

I prefer to put them in the oven at a higher temp, shorter time.  I prefer around 220-250 for an hour or two, depends on how high a temp.  the higher the temp, the shorter the time.  I like the idea of cutting the salt out of the rub, I'm gonna have to try that next time I do ribs.

[smokergirl]

Hi there Kiyotei,

Smokergirl's my handle

Care to share a brine recipe or two for ribs?
Methods to your smoker madness?
I need all the help I can get, have decided to move up from rookie and smoke my ribs, butt, fish, and anything else that can't out run me off.
thanks to all
Smokergirl

[kiyotei]

here is a good brine for chicken and pork:
The Brine
•   1-1/2 gallons (6 quarts) apple juice or cider
•   1-1/2 cups Kosher salt (*Note below regarding amount.)
•   1-1/4 cups brown sugar
•   10 each whole cloves
•   3 tsp. black peppercorns
•   3 tsp. thyme and/or
•   3 tsp. dried sage
•   1 ea. peel from one orange (or one tangerine) (colored part only)
Directions:
1.   Combine all ingredients in a non-reactive pot, bring mixture to a boil, lower heat and simmer for 15-20 minutes (partly covered). Allow brine to cool completely; at least 40 degrees F.
I would soak the ribs only for a few hours, say 2-3.  If you use a lot of salt in your rub, you may want to cut back on that.  You don't want the meat to be too salty (easy to do with chicken).  You might try removing all salt from the rub.  I also like to slather the ribs with a mixture of yellow mustard and maple syrup before smoking.  The syrup really adds a tasty sweetness to the meat.  And yes use REAL maple syrup, not the corn syrup crap.