SpyGuy Lox Questions

[Father Tom]

Hay HS.  Just to add to the "What is Chili" Question, I have been making "Gravlaks" which is the same as "Lox"?.  It is a dry rub (brine).  Salt, Sugar, Black Pepper, Fresh dill, dill seeds.  Rub meat sides of skin on fillets,  Put fillets flesh to flesh, Put heavy weight on top fillet and refrigerate for 3 to 4 days.

Now What about the Chili!!

Tom

[canadiansmoker]

T2, I didn't catch any myself. I haven't fished in quite a few years. I just picked some up from a local distributor and carried it back on the plane. I'd love to catch some myself though. Fish always seems to taste better when you catch it yourself ;D

[La Quinta]

Thanks for that info Giz...interesting you got it from Weight Watchers??? What made ya go there? Just curious... :)

[Caneyscud]

And just like anything else controversial, it's because nobody has seen it necessary to furnish a legal definition here in the US.  Lox (and it's kith and kin) are american inventions.  And unlike France, Italy, and other parts of Europe.  There was a time in France, that Champagne meant only one thing.  A sparkling wine made in the Northern area of France known as Champagne using the winemaking procedure called méthode champenoise  This was a legally binding appellation designated by the government.  To bear the name Champagne, the wine must have been produced in that region.  Other European nations abided by the rule calling their sparkling wines by other names - Sekt in Germany, as spumante  in Italy, vin mousseux  in other regions of France.  And then came the Americans with their boorish ways and any white wine that was sparkling (effervescent because of natural fermentation or because of industrially added CO2) was wrongfully called Champagne.  I guess if the game of making money, you can call anything anything as long as you make money at it.  Sorta the same with lox.  Except that it has no real "origin", nor does it have any "real" recipe, and neither does it have any "real" legal definition.  It just happened!  Because of that, much like chili, anybody can make a claim and with no governing anybody will.  I would hazard a guess that even with governing, anybody with a wish of fame or fortune wouldn't let a thing like a legal definition stand in the way of their success.  Lox is a word derivitive of not only lax which is Yiddish, but also lachs which is German, and laks - which is Northern European.  Gravlox, or more correctly Gravad Laks for those of Swedish or Danish descent is dry salt cured salmon flavored with dill.  Origin is less enticing.  Gravad literally means grave or hole in the ground.  Northern European fishermen in the Middle Ages would make gravlox by burying their salmon catch in the sand near the high water mark and letting it ferment - yummmmm!
Lox, or what was first called Lox in the Jewish delis of New York started out prior to refrigerated transport.  The bounty of Pacific Salmon was wanted in populated areas of the Northeast.  As there was not refrigeration, the answer devised was to pack the salmon in barrels of strong brine for their travel.  When the delis received this brined salmon, they would soak and wash off the brine and slice it for sale and use on sammies.  Apparently the deli's Jewish clientele took a liking to this and unoffically named if lox.  So lox was likely originally heavily brine cured pacific salmon.  Nova Lox originated in Nova Scotia at a time when most salmon in New York City was from Nova Scotia - Atlantic Salmon - a different species with different life-cycle processes - Pacific salmon die upon breeding, Atlantic Salmon can breed more than once (usually twice, but occassionaly 3 or 4 times).   For whatever reason the Nova was always lightly brined (so less salty) and lightly smoked.  Lighter maybe because it did not have to travel all the way across the continent in a traincar.  The lighter brine is sometimes lighter because of the addition of sugar.  Similar to Scotch Cured Salmon.  Even though some sell scotch cured salmon that has the addition of Scotch Whiskey in  the brine, scotch cured salmon originally referred to the addition of sugar in the cure.  And then of course there is the hot smoked salmons and the smoked and dried salmon that are altogether different from lox. 

Typically what we are sold as lox or prepare as lox, would have typically originally been called Nova lox or Scotch cured Lox (but out of Pacific salmon rather than Atlantic Salmon).  As previously stated, there are no legal definitions for Lox or Nova Lox. So what a smokehouse calls 'lox' or 'real lox' is simply what they choose to call their brine cured, cold smoked salmon. It may use sugar in the curing or not.  It's all good eats - whatever it's called.  Unlike chili with beans  ;D

Shakespeare
The Bard of Hot Aire
Pontificator Extraordinaire'

[Gizmo]

Thanks for that info Giz...interesting you got it from Weight Watchers??? What made ya go there? Just curious... :)

The Mrs. sent me the link that day and I had just read the info right before getting on the board. 

[La Quinta]

Caney...that was an interesting read....lots of typing...where did you get the info?

[Caneyscud]

Thanks LQ.  One of the big papers I had to do in college, I did on wine and the appellation system and how it might affect the food industry in the US if we adopted the concept.  Then got hooked on lox about 30 years ago on a business trip to Orlando Florida when I did breakfast at a nice little Jewish Deli then about a month later on our 2nd anniversary the wife and I dined at this seafood smorgasbord in Nashville called New Orleans Manor and they had it.  Hooked ever since.  Plus while in the British Isles a few years ago, happened to wander into some lox producers/sellers somewhere between London and Edinburgh (I just don't remember) and also in Scotland and learned about the gravlox and their way of making lox. I'm a Foodie from way back, and particularly like reading about the history of foods in the US and how they originated and spread.  Yeah, I know I need a life!  Maybe that is why I don't have too many friends!   I was a nerd in school, unless it was during football season - I was a 6-1, 245 lb Freshman benching 250 !   ;D

Shakespeare
The Bard of Hot Aire
Pontificator Extraordinaire'

[Father Tom]

 :-[ :-[ :-[ :-[Caney I bow to you and your knowledge.  It is like fishing flies, change the thread colour and its a different cat.  I see you spend some time in a fly shop....Lucky Man.......

Tom

[Caneyscud]

It is like fishing flies, change the thread colour and its a different cat.  I see you spend some time in a fly shop....Lucky Man.......

Tom

Funny, you said that Tom - just finished my last round of "flies of a different color".  Latter part of last year I was doing some experiments on just that.  I was taking some of the normal, bread and butter flies and tweaking them a LOT!  They consistently produce on my home waters - a trout ditch called the Caney Fork - a tailwater fishery in Middle Tennessee that was arguably perhaps the best East of the Mississippi River last year.  It is not a natural trout stream but gets stocked with rainbows, browns, and for the first time last year brookies, regularly and we have many, many holdover fish.  Had a bait guy take a brown in April of last year that tipped the scales at 23+ pounds.  So we have in the system anywhere from 6" stockers to some truly monster fish and because of it the river got heavy, heavy pressure last year.  Some of the reports toward the last of the season showed some slowing up of catch rates.  (we don't really have a season, but in December, they usually start generating enough that we cannot get on it to fish it until usually April or May - that is our "off" season)  Two flies that in the past few years produce regularly through the summer and into the fall that I enjoy using are soft hackles and zebra midges.  That is the two types of flies that really fell off in production at the end of summer.  So for the fun of it, I started tying them in unusual and startling colors, and in unusually large sizes.   Soft hackles are usually fished in size 14's or 16's and zebras in 20's and smaller.   This time I tied both in sizes up to 10.  All in all, it seemed to work and well.  Can't wait to try the newer ones this Spring when the water gets down.  I caught some fish and with amazingly vicious strikes when guys who get to fish much more than I do weren't.  Sorta fun to say the least!!!  Just goes to show that matching the hatch is not always what it takes.  Something they haven't seen before in an attractor fly sometimes does the trick.  Particularly good was holographic blue bodies as well as a holographic white/pink body, and orange bodies.  Fun stuff.   

The fly shop work is my fun and is usually only on Saturdays, so it cuts into free time, but sure is fun - especially this time of year - remember waters are high and not much fishing.   We make a big pot of coffee and guys come in and we sit around and shoot the breeze, exchanging lies, ties, and showing each other our latest purchases, especially bamboo rods. 

Shakespeare
The Bard of Hot Aire
Pontificator Extraordinaire'

[La Quinta]

Very kool....thanks... :)

[tsquared]

Had a bait guy take a brown in April of last year that tipped the scales at 23+ pounds.

A 23 lb brown!!!! Holy smokes--you aren't kidding when you say there are monsters in there. That would have been fun. Keep up the reports Caney Scud--they're great.
T2

[Caneyscud]

I'd rather hear about your prawns, dungies, 'but, salmon, smelts, razors, and geoducks (man those things are hard to look at!) .  The prawns you are getting are those the one with the pink glowing eyes.  Got a mess of them outta Halibut Bay near Homer a few years back - sure sweet and tasty.  I want to some day eat a dungy - I'm just too cheap to buy one!  Last time I was up in Sequim, we were able to meet a oyster farmer and was able to partake of many varieties of Pacific oysters, Kumomotos, Olympias, some of the specialty bay specific Pacifics etc.... Man those are some good eats.  Luckily, I've been able to occassionally buy some NW oysters here.  I was hoping to get up that way this year and take my dad fishing - but their trip up to Anchorage is in the middle of May and I can't get free, plus not sure about fishing around Anchorage in May.

Shakespeare
The Bard of Hot Aire
Pontificator Extraordinaire'

[tsquared]

Caneyscud--these prawns have the pink eyes when you shine a light on them at night but they're black in the day time. (I just went and peeked in my cooler sitting in the kitchen to check.) The big ones are about 6 inches (prior to cleaning) --and they are so sweet!! I pulled and brought home my 4 traps today as the inlet where I fish them will be closed for a week or so. We put our traps in anywhere between 140 and 185 feet, depending what depth is producing. The prawns seem to move around from one depth to the other--I'm guessing because of different tides on different days, but I honestly don't really know. Today wasn't very productive--maybe 40 good size ones--but enough for a prawn and dungie dinner while watching  the hockey playoffs!) I unloaded the prawn and crab traps and then put in my anchoring gear and halibut rods. Tomorrow we're going to give the halibut a try. Around the south end of Vancouver Island, the tide flows can be quite strong, usually making it hard to stay on a producing spot (and you lose gear to the hungry bottom too) but tomorrow there's not going to be much tide action so we'll anchor in about 185 feet of water and fish. I would have gone today too but--too many honey do's. I had to rototill the garden --and the killer is, I could stop the rototiller and look out and see the boys anchored up in the bay in front of my place trying for halibut!!  :(  That hurts. 

Here's a pic of the prawns.



And here's one of dinner: Prawns, 1/2 a dungy, local sparagus and spud salad with an IPA.

Cheers,
T2

[Caneyscud]

Yep, that's them.  Spooky eyes!  The first time I had them the captain cooked them in sea water and sea weed- they weren't their best, but the next time, I boiled them like I would our Gulf shrimpies - man they were good!

Shakespeare
The Bard of Hot Aire
Pontificator Extraordinaire'