Time and temperature for brisket

[jcohan]

I have been following with interest the threads on this forum concerning the barbequeing of brisket.  The general consensus I seem to find is to run at a temperature of 200 - 240F and expect 1 - 2 hours per pound.  In fact, Pachanga, who has provided some wonderfully detailed information on brisket, says "A single brisket (10 to 12 lbs.) takes 12 to 15 hours."

http://forum.bradleysmoker.com/index.php?topic=12455.0

I am working on my fourth brisket, and I have found that for me, they seem to cook much faster.  Here are the results on the one I have in my digital Bradley today:

single 10 lb brisket, 230F temperature, probe in meaty center of flat

5 hours    150F IT
6 hours    160F IT
8 hours    189F IT
8 1/2 hours  194F IT
9 hours     195.5 IT

This is much faster than I have been expecting based on my reading.  For those of you who have done many briskets, does this look typical?  Is my temperature too high?

On another note, rather than FTC'ing the meat when it is done, has anyone successfully tried to wrap it in foil, and leave it in the smoker with the temperature set to around 180F until ready to carve?

[FLBentRider]

This is much faster than I have been expecting based on my reading.  For those of you who have done many briskets, does this look typical?  Is my temperature too high?

I think that the temp has alot to do with it. I use 200-205F for butts and bristek, and when you look at a 35F degree difference in temp multiplied over the number of hours involved, you are delivering more heat to the meat in a shorter period of time.

I'm not saying that it is too hot, That's just the way I do it. How does it turn out for you ?

On another note, rather than FTC'ing the meat when it is done, has anyone successfully tried to wrap it in foil, and leave it in the smoker with the temperature set to around 180F until ready to carve?

I don't see why it wouldn't work, but I have not done it. I use FTC more because when it goes in there are usually other butts/briskets still in the smoker.

There might be a slight risk of it drying out, but it is probably a small risk.

[jcohan]

I think that the temp has alot to do with it. I use 200-205F for butts and bristek, and when you look at a 35F degree difference in temp multiplied over the number of hours involved, you are delivering more heat to the meat in a shorter period of time.

I'm not saying that it is too hot, That's just the way I do it. How does it turn out for you ?

The meat is nice and tender, and everyone loves it, but I personally find the flat in particular to be a little on the dry side. I've wondered if slower cooking might preserve more moisture, but on the other hand, it means it is in the smoker longer where it is losing moisture as well.  It's taking me a long time to experiment because where I live, I have to drive 500 miles to find a butcher who will sell me a whole brisket. As a result, I don't get to do them very often!

[FLBentRider]

I think that the temp has alot to do with it. I use 200-205F for butts and bristek, and when you look at a 35F degree difference in temp multiplied over the number of hours involved, you are delivering more heat to the meat in a shorter period of time.

I'm not saying that it is too hot, That's just the way I do it. How does it turn out for you ?

The meat is nice and tender, and everyone loves it, but I personally find the flat in particular to be a little on the dry side. I've wondered if slower cooking might preserve more moisture, but on the other hand, it means it is in the smoker longer where it is losing moisture as well.  It's taking me a long time to experiment because where I live, I have to drive 500 miles to find a butcher who will sell me a whole brisket. As a result, I don't get to do them very often!

500 miles. yikes. I wouldn't be doing a lot of them either. I grouse about $2.96/lb @ Sams club!

My theory (not rooted in any scientific fact whatsoever) is that the lower temp helps retain moisture since water evaporates faster the higher the temp is.

The only fact in play is water boils @ 212F - I try to keep the temp under that.

[Pachanga]

FLBentRider, as usual, provides good information.  I agree with his assessment. Temperature differential is cumulative and certainly would account for your shorter smoking time.  As he states, that doesn't make your cooking temperature wrong.

I smoke my briskets at around 220.

Other variables include meat temperature, ambient temperature, total smoker load in pounds, shape of the meat, preheating temperature, number of door openings (especially early in the smoke), water temperature, location in smoker,  modifications to smoker, mopping, etc.

As far as foiling, I would recommend foiling and placing the foiled brisket, wrapped in a towel in a cooler, (FTC) for holding.  It will hold for hours. 

Once you get to know your smoker, smoking times will be more consistent with your target time.  However, as Caneyscud has documented, similar sized briskets under the exact same conditions can be finished hours apart.  It is better to be early than late.

My experience is that lower temperatures with a large water source will produce a moister brisket.  Mopping will also help.  You can also plug the flat with trimmed fat.

Your excellent record keeping will help with future smokes.

Good luck and slow smoking,

Pachanga

[Pachanga]

My theory (not rooted in any scientific fact whatsoever) is that the lower temp helps retain moisture since water evaporates faster the higher the temp is.

The only fact in play is water boils @ 212F - I try to keep the temp under that.

FLBentRider,

I agree with you completely and science backs you up.  My theory is that even at 220, in a water smoker, the evaporation of the water pan results in a water envelope that will keep the meat below boiling.  Science says that evaporation is a cooling process.  A mop will also keep the exterior layer of meat cooler if necessary and result in cooling evaporation.

Since I smoke several briskets at a time, my smoking temperature for the majority for the smoke is much closer to your lower temperatures.  When the temp gets higher, I pay closer attention and adjust as necessary.  You make good points.

Good luck and slow smoking,

Pachanga

[jcohan]

Thanks to both of your for all your great advice.  Next time I'll drop the temp and see how it compares.  It is a hard adjustment to go from years of doing roasts in the oven at 350 to drop down to just above 200!

I guess I should clarify - I do have a butcher close by but the price I pay there for briskets is a little beyond my preference.  I'm reluctant to experiment on a $60 brisket!

Thanks again for your help.

[jcohan]

Just a note to let you know how this turned out.  As the other times I have done brisket, the point was very juicy, but the flat portion turned out drier than I would like.  However, I recall reading earlier regarding how burnt ends of the brisket are served by smothering them in a BBQ sauce as you would for pulled pork or beef.  So I made up a simple sauce of ketchup, worcestershire sauce, red wine vinegar, sugar, cumin and chili powder, and gently simmered the chopped up leftovers in this for about an hour.  The meat fully rehydrated, began to fall apart in the sauce, and it was one of the most delectable things I've tasted.  I'm tempted next time to just hide the flat from the company after I barbeque a brisket so I can make this up later for myself!

[MPTubbs]

There you go.....you just turned something you didn't like to something you love!

Now that's using your thinker.  ;)

[KevinG]

There ya go, don't forget to write that recipe stuff down so you can duplicate it next time.

[Caneyscud]

Burnt ends are good stuff - and that is from someone who does not usually use any bbq sauce of any kind.  There are BBQ joints where their burnt end plates are as popular at their regular plates.  Used to be only the tips of the flats were used, but there are now a few people who cook their brisket to fall apart in the point, purposefully overcooking the flat so they can make burnt ends out of the entire flat! 

Congrats jcohan, you overcame! - the mantra of a dedicated barbecuer!

Somehow, I missed the thread up til now.  As far as cooking temps I have found that as long as you stay below 250 you are good to go.  I usually set my DBS at 230.  IMNSHO, any lower only delays the cook.  There is sufficient time for all the magic to happen at 250.   Quite often I have a 11/12 lb brisket done in 10 hours. 

And now to totally confuse you, when some of the Central Texas joints do brisket and clods, there time frame is much shorter = higher temps.