Got the brisket in the oven, what do I do with all the juices?

[degenerazn]

Finished smoking last night at 3am, yes 3am.  Put it in the oven at 200, my dad thought I left the oven on overnight and he turned it off, good thing I woke up 10 mins afterwards to turn it back on.  Anyways, its soaking in its juices and the IT is about 175 deg.  I'm just about ready to FTC once it reaches 185 deg or so.  Should I drain out all the juices, save them, or FTC w/ the juices?  What do you guys do with it?

[HawkeyeSmokes]

Sounds like a late night. I drained the juice from mine before the FTC. Used some of it to make barbecue sauce and defatted the rest to use with leftovers.Look forward to hearing your results.

[westexasmoker]

Yep HS, has got ya right, drain the juice before FTC.  Juice makes a heck of base for sauce!

C

[mikecorn.1]

I take mine out of the juices for ftc. Take the fat out and reduce in pot on the stove top maybe with a little corn starch or flour to thicken it.

[FLBentRider]

Ditto here. Defat liquid, use to make sauce.

[degenerazn]

My briskets ended up a bit dry when I sliced it up.  Could it be because it wasn't fatty enough?  When I took out the trey from the oven, it was nearly filled to the top with juices.  I think I made a mistake when I took out the juices and put the briskets back in the oven for another hour at 200 degrees, would that dry it up?

Edit: I realized I made the same mistake as I did w/ the ribs.  When I boated it, I didn't wrap the top with foil.  Could explain why it ended up a bit dry

Here are some pics

After 4 hours of FTC


All sliced up


Added the juices back to the brisket


Caught in the act

[Caneyscud]

Love the caught in the act pic!  Probably too lean and taking out of the juices then back in at 200 probably didn't help.  If I'm doing a roast, steak, or the like, I usually let it cool down before I take the meat off it's juices.  Don't know if it is an Old Wife's Tale or not, but an old man told me that as a piece of meat cools, it will draw juices back into itself. 

I don't usually boat, foil, or FTC (only when the meat gets done sooner than expected and want to keep it warm) - I usually cook completely in a smoker and mop frequently.  But I do know that if you take a piece of meat and boil it, it can come out dry if you cook it too long or if it is too lean.  It really doesn't matter how you cook a piece of meat, you can overcook it to dryness.  The processes going on within the meat as it cooks essentially drives out the interior moisture as a normal process of cooking.  Do that too long, too fast, or too high, and you get dryness.  A well marbled and fatty piece of meat will take longer to dryness, partly because of physics and partly because the fat can be a source of "moisture". 

Some fats start to melt at 110 to 120
Meat fibers start to cook at about 140
Collagen starts to gel at about 160

While the fats are melting most of the heat is going to melting fat, not cooking meat fibers or melting collagen (thermodynamics) At about 140F red meat begins to turn pink. As the temperature rises, the juices go from pink to clear, and the meat turns tan. Also at about 140F, the heat causes the sheaths around the muscle cells to shrink rapidly and squeeze out moisture much like wringing out a wet wash cloth. It can happen suddenly at high heat, and the meat will rapidly shrink, stiffen, and become chewier. Juices will bead and pool on the surface. That's why medium rare steak cooked to about 130F is much juicier than well-done steak cooked to 160F.  Also that is what makes meat juicy. Raw meat isn't very juicy because the cell walls are all intact. After the fibers break down the juices release more easily as you chew. That's why a rare steak is juicier than raw steak.  As moisture evaporates, the meat begins to shrink. A slab of pork ribs can lose 20% or more of its weight in cooking due to shrinkage. So we are faced with a problem. To completely liquefy the collagen we need to cook the meat to about 180F or more with tougher cuts. But by then it is well past well-done and the muscle fibers are drying out. As a result, we need to add moisture.  How:

The water pan.
Steaming  (in a smoker - foiling or boating)
Saucing  Thin sauces penetrate the meat more easily than thick sauces.
Injecting
Marinating
Brining
Mopping, basting, spritzing  (really good for open-pit, but can be problematic with a closed smoker because of heat loss and yo-yo temps.)

The melting of collagen really starts to accelerate as the meat hits 160F and it continues on up to 180F. By now lean meat like steak or pork loin is well done and beginning to dry out. On collagen and fat laden cuts such as pork ribs, pork shoulder, or beef brisket, although the muscle fibers are drying and toughening, the collagen that held them together as bundles begins to liquefy; the meat gets easier to chew and the gelatinous collagens makes the texture more pleasing.

Meanwhile the fat is softening, rendering, spreading through the meat to lubricate it, and dripping out. As it softens, fat absorbs the aromas and flavors from spices in the rub, marinade, or brine if you used them. Most important, the fat absorbs the smoke flavor if you are using a smoker. If the meat gets too hot, all the fat will render out and rob the meat of much of their flavor and texture.

Try to avoid frozen or thawed meat. Muscle fibers contain a lot of liquid. What happens when you thaw frozen meat? You find lots of juices in the tray!  Where did that juice come from?  They weren't put there by the processor?  It's not blood, it's what happens when the juices form ice crystals which break open meat fibers. More juices escape and there's no way to get them back in. Moral of the story: Fresh meat is usually juicier than frozen meat. 

[degenerazn]

Caneyscud, I appreciate the cooking meat 101.  It really helps me understand the anatomy of meat.  I'm gonna print out what you wrote and stick it on my fidge. lol

[Up In Smoke]

You could take some of the juices, add 1 cup beer some carrots onions celery little salt and pepper, and garlic
simmer gently till veggies are soft then strain through a fine strainer.
use this for a base in black bean and brisket soup?

[watchdog56]

So Caneyscud. If I understand this right beef you take to 140IT and pork 160-180?

[Caneyscud]

So Caneyscud. If I understand this right beef you take to 140IT and pork 160-180?

Not quite Watchdog.  The meat fibers start cooking (and changing color from pink/red to gray/brown) at about 140 in beef.  That means with a med rare steak, the inner is probably 130 but the outside may be 160+ - different cut (tenderness) and thickness of meat and different style of cooking.  Barbecued brisket (and roast) should be IT of about 180 to 185 for slicing and 195 to 205+ for fall apart. As an aside, pathogens are not killed unless the temp is 165 (according to USDA).

Now pork is where you can get some discussion.  If you have "clean" pork and pork that is lean (like a loin say), then some will advise a lower IT for some tender cuts.   But with a butt that is different.  If by some chance you want to slice one then 170 to 175 ish.  For pulling 195 to 210.  

On tough cuts of meat, the higher temps are needed to render fat and to melt collagen to obtain succulent tenderness!

[watchdog56]

Well could you please read my post under meats titled Tough chuck roast and tell me what I did wrong?