Tough Chuck roast

[watchdog56]

Well I tried a chuck roast today. It was tough. Any ideas why? This is what I did. Probably first mistake was defrosting roast in microwave? It was about 5 lbs roast. Smoked chuck roast on July 26 2009. Outside temp 80.Seasoned with garlic powder,black pepper,
and "Johnny's seasoning salt". Wrapped in cling wrap and refigerated overnight. Took roast
out of frig and let it get to room temp. Preheat smoker to 200. Smoked 2hours of hickory.
Set food temp to 150 and smoker temp to 220. Smoked for 4 1/2 hours. Took out and put in
foil covered pan with apple juice in bottom at 200 for 2 hours. Internal temp was 180. Removed from oven and FTC for 2 hours.Roast was toughbut flavor was good. I did have trouble keeping temp in smoker at 210 as I posted under the accessory column.

I have a dbs4 rack and set the temp for 220 and after a while it goes up to 230. When I adjust it down 10 degrees to 210 the temp according to my ET73 drops to 190. Adjust up another 10 degrees and it seems to climb 20-30 degrees. Why so much variance? The outside temp is 75 and very little wind. I plan on getting a PID but just have not bought one yet.

[Gizmo]

Temp variations is no big deal for 90 percent of the smoking most people do.  The temp control is a simple on/off circuit like you find in most appliances.  The variation is due to the hi and low limits and the relatively slow reaction time (which is not necessarily a bad thing) of the temperature sensor.   

Chuck roasts are tough.  They need long cook times to tenderize and typically braising at that.  There are a few here that have tried them with some success.  You can do a search to find them.  I believe WestTexasSmoker has one of the latest posts.

[Caneyscud]

First off the variances - you don't really have to worry about them.  It's within the programming in the Bradley unit.  Likely timing of temperature samples taken or maybe a logarithm.  The variabilty is at first when everything is at different temps.  As the meat heats up, the variability decreases.  For most things most of us smoke, it is not really a bother just a minor inconvenience.  Unless you do fish, some sausages, and the like, you probably won't notice it in the food.  Brisket, butts, clods, roast and spareribs are pretty much forgiving as to speed of cooking as long as it is not too fast.  They require you to be in the reasonable range of certain IT's for what tenderness you want.  So on your roast - they are very variable, sometimes depending on what part of the chuck it was taken from - I like the "7-bone" ones named for the shape of the bone - they seem to be more tender to me.  Rule of thumb guess, until you know how your style goes, on just about any chunk of meat is like 1 1/2 to 2 hours per pound at 225 deg.  So that roast should take somewhere between 7.5 and 10 hours all said and done at 225 cabinet temperature at the grate level the meat is at.  You FTC'd at an IT of 180.  That is a little low for slicing tenderness - to get pullapart tenderness you have to get to 200 to 210.  The danger is drying out, so getting from 180 to 210 is probably best done foiled or in the pan as you did.  In my opinion chuck roasts need some time at the above 195 temperature to reach real tenderness.  It doesn't need to get through that time at any speed.  Once your IT gets to say 195 or 200 then set your cabinet temperature back to 200 or so and hold the meat there for a little while like 30 min. or so.     

2 or 3 things I'd modify - well more than 2 or 3.

1. Set cabinet temp to 230 (you don't need to adjust- it will do it itself) and see what the temp is at meat level.  Somehow set the ET73 probe on the rack the meat is on  The tip of the probe should not be touching anything, especially anything metal.  If it is somewhere around 225 then that is ok.  Above that not too bad, but you have to watch out that it doesn't dry out.  Lower than that, your cook will just take longer.  You were probably higher than you expected.  Might be that the 180 IT had just been hit when you boated.  I usually set at 230, put it on one of the middle racks and smoke.  I've checked the temp in the past and it was withing parameters. 

2.  Don't know how much apple juice you used, but you don't need much 1/4 cup or so.  If foil is sealed well, it's not going anywhere except letting the meat enjoy an invigorating and tenderizing sauna experience.  Too much AJ can slow the development of steam.

3.  Leave to an IT of at least 200 to 210 for fall apart tenderness before FTC. 

4.  Don't know what rack you put the chuck on, but one of the 2 middle ones would be best and more stable in temp.  I have a personal like of the second rack down from the top. 

5.  NO PEEKING.  Sometimes not getting the temp any higher than low 200's means too much peeking.  That is forgivable on the first smokes, but after that, you get the yardstick across the back of the hand.  Now, opening the door to baste/mop is not the same as peeping - and it doesn't need to be done more than once an hour. 

6.  Vent - the vent must be at least 1/2 open - preferrably more.  Sounds illogical, but this time, closing it down actually cause temps to fall.  The vent is there mainly to vent moisture out.  There is no need for combustion air or venting the smoke out.   Steam is at 212+ and if you have lots of moisture in the air, the moisture will be absorbing the heat, not the meat.  You might be losing heat out the top, but the cabinet is insulated enough to keep enough heat in. 

All that being said, maybe it was the meat - yeh, tell everyone it was the meat.   ;D  Seriously though, some chuckies just don't seem to ever get pull apart. 

[watchdog56]

First I should have specified my IT when I took it out of smoker. It was 150. My vent was wide open. I smoked the roast for 4 1/2 hours. It did not have any bone in it. I did have the roast and my probe on the second rack down from the top in my smoker. Also when I put it in the oven it was in the middle rack. I put roast in a pan and covered it with foil in the oven. My guess is I probably had more than 1/4 cup of apple juice. When I took roast out of oven the IT was 180.

Are you saying I should have had the IT temp up to 200? The roast was tough the way it was how would it get pull apart tender with a higher temp?

Also I seen on a post by westexasmoker that he did a top round when he made philly cheese steak and he smoked it for 4 hours with an IT of 140 and then let it rest overnight. You can check out his link http://forum.bradleysmoker.com/index.php?topic=10992.0
It looked real tender and I wish it was mine :)LOL.

I was thinking down the road if I do it again to try it for four hours with an IT at 140 and see if it would turn out any better. What are your thoughts?

[HawkeyeSmokes]

Caney has given lots of good advice. Not much I can add except it sounds like the IT of the meat came up kind of quick from 150 to 180 after you put it in the oven. Have you checked the temp of your oven when it's set at 200? Mine is off quite a bit and it hotter than what I set it for so I adjust it using the remote thermometer.

I forgot to mention, there is a big difference between a top round and a chuck roast. The top round is much leaner and more tender so takes to a lower IT better. The chuck roast is tougher, has more fat so works well cooking slow to a higher IT. It's kind of like making pot roast, cook a chuck roast real low and slow and it will be fall apart tender.

[watchdog56]

It was in the oven for a couple of hours. I have checked my oven and the temps are accurate.

[FLBentRider]

If you hit a fat pocket, the temp will be higher.

I always stick the temperature probe in multiple places.

[Mr Walleye]

Well I tried a chuck roast today. It was tough. Any ideas why? This is what I did. Probably first mistake was defrosting roast in microwave? It was about 5 lbs roast. Smoked chuck roast on July 26 2009. Outside temp 80.Seasoned with garlic powder,black pepper,
and "Johnny's seasoning salt". Wrapped in cling wrap and refigerated overnight. Took roast
out of frig and let it get to room temp. Preheat smoker to 200. Smoked 2hours of hickory.
Set food temp to 150 and smoker temp to 220. Smoked for 4 1/2 hours. Took out and put in
foil covered pan with apple juice in bottom at 200 for 2 hours. Internal temp was 180. Removed from oven and FTC for 2 hours.Roast was toughbut flavor was good. I did have trouble keeping temp in smoker at 210 as I posted under the accessory column.

I have a dbs4 rack and set the temp for 220 and after a while it goes up to 230. When I adjust it down 10 degrees to 210 the temp according to my ET73 drops to 190. Adjust up another 10 degrees and it seems to climb 20-30 degrees. Why so much variance? The outside temp is 75 and very little wind. I plan on getting a PID but just have not bought one yet.

Watchdog

The DBS will see some temp variations, typically about 10 degrees over and under your set point , although it will be tighter as the load (meat) comes to temp. This will have little effect on most things you smoke/cook.

I see you use the ET73 which is good but you didn't indicate where you were measuring the cabinet temp from. In my opinion you should be monitoring the temp that the meat is being exposed to. In other words you want the temp probe at the level of the meat, but not too close that the meat itself influences the reading and certainly not above it.

Why was your chuck tough???.... In my opinion it is because the IT was not high enough. The others have given you some great thoughts on making sure the temp reading your getting is accurate by checking in multiple places. Chucks can be taken as high as 195 to 205 if you are pulling them and I prefer the higher side of that. In your first post in this thread it appears at most, you had it at around 220 for 2 hours of smoke, plus 4.5 hours, plus 2 hours in the oven at 200. I'm not sure if I'm reading your total time correctly or not, but at max it's it's 8.5 hours. I usually do larger chucks but I see times around 18 to 20 hours similar to pork butts. In my opinion this is not enough time and only taking it to an IT of 180 is not enough... certainly not for pulling it. Also, for chucks, I like to take the IT to about 165-170, then put them in a foil pan, add a splash of what ever tickles your fancy... beer, AJ, beef broth, then covered with foil to finish.

I think Caney's post has some great detail for you to take note of for next time.

JMHO

Mike