Is it safe to eat?

KevinG · September 28, 2009, 05:45:39 AM

OK, I'm a newbie to smoke cooking and need help with some questions. Here's the scenario:
I have the Bradley Digital 6 rack smoker.
I got a recipe from this website for Country Chicken, it goes as follows:
2 to 3 lb chicken
Marinade:
1 tsp salt
2c apple vinegar 1 Tbsp seasoning mix
1c salad oil 1Tbsp garlic powder
1 tsp white pepper 1 egg
Apple bisquits for smoker

It says marinade the chicken overnight (which I did) and to preheat the smoker with smoke at 250 F, then cook for 2 to 3 hours.

At 6:30 P.M. outside temp of 96.3 F, 4% humidity, 27.58 in-Hg, and a calm (no) wind.
I preheated at 250 F and set the smoke time for 1 hr 40 min and the oven time for 3 hours. I put the chicken in the middle rack with the vent 1/2 open, and the pan 1/2 full of water. I checked it 1/2 hour after the smoke finished. The color looked great, the smell delicious, but the internal temperature of the chicken did not even reach 140 F. The USDA says you must cook chicken to 185 F, so I started to panic and put the chicken in my home oven at 400 and cooked until the internal temperature got to 185 F.

Now for the questions:

1) I am concerned because the recipe didn't say to brine or to use any cure, so should I have assumed it needed a brine/cure and done that first?

2) Would it have been safe to eat even though the internal temp never got to 185 F (less than 140 F) after 2 hours of cooking and it didn't get any brine or cure, and if so what internal temperature is OK to eat it at?

3) Is it safe to eat now, or did it sit too long before I got it to the correct internal temperature?

4) Should I have used a different rack position or vent opening?

5) Should I have cooked the chicken in the oven first to an internal temperature of 185 F, and then smoked it?

Thanks for your help.

Kevin

Hopefull Romantic · September 28, 2009, 05:57:45 AM

Hello KevinG and welcome to the forum. Relax and take a couple of deep breaths. There is no reason to panic.

You said that you have marinated the chicken overnight, so the chicken was brined and there is no reason to use any cure therein.
The USDA is correct on the IT issue, you should never eat chicken at 140 but much closer to 185.

The thing that I do not understand an please correct me if I am wrong, you said that you took a look after 1 and half hours the color was good but the IT was around 140. Chicken will not be cooked in the Bradley after one and half hours. Your recipe may have called for 1.5 hours of smoke but you should have let go on cooking without the smoke for another 1.5 - 2 hours in the Bradley. The BDS is basically an over but with a max. heat of 5 100 watt lamps, so it takes a bit longer there than in your conventional oven. The positioning in the middle racks is always a good idea and your vent should be open even wider 3/ 4 would be better in order to avoid moisture buildup and smoke dripping on your food.

As for possibility of eating the chicken, I think it is okay since you have finished it in your oven to 185 IT.

HR

manxman · September 28, 2009, 06:33:32 AM

QuoteThe USDA says you must cook chicken to 185 F

From memory I thought the USDA guidelines for chicken, whole or otherwise, was 165F?

Whilst I think many guidelines including USDA err on the side of caution in the case of chicken (hence salmonella!) I would always stick to a minimum of 160 - 165F until the juices run clear.

The Bradley Smoker cooks in a low and slow fashion as HR says, it is just a matter of holding your nerve and not worry too much about the time it is taking and cooking to an appropriate internal temperature. The internal food temp tends to plateau for a while during the cooking process in any case.

Always best to smoke first before cooking as the smoke uptake will be better and it offers better protection in terms of food safety.

From what you have said the chicken should be fine to eat. :)

classicrockgriller · September 28, 2009, 06:47:08 AM

KevinG, When you are cooking meat , chicken, etc The times will vary due to different conditions. BUT, the internal temp of your finished product won't change. The times are an approx, The IT is a constant. What may have slowed you down a little was your vent position. Chicken is very moist and should be 3/4 or more open vent. I run mine full open as per recommendations of the members here. Next, you just panicked and didn't give the chicken time to finish cooking. Sounds like everything else went ok. Go grab another yardbird and do it again. Start you a post when you first start the chicken and post what you are doing, people will read and help you along the way. Good smoking. CRG

KyNola · September 28, 2009, 06:49:04 AM

You're good to go. HR is correct on the time issue. You could have left it in the Bradley to cook until the IT got to 165 but what you did is fine. With poultry, always open the vent 100% as poultry holds a lot of moisture and you need that moisture to escape the smoker as it will knock the temp down inside the box and may cause condensation to form inside the smoker box as well.

KyNola

Wildcat · September 28, 2009, 07:17:20 AM

The others have you covered on this issue.

IMHO, since the Bradley generally leaves chicken skin rubbery, it is probably a good thing that you put it in your oven. You can also finish on the grill to crisp up the skin. I generally do not like to utilize two or more units to cook a meal, so I only do skinless birds in the Bradley. For skin on birds and lean steaks I use my chunk wood unit so that I can smoke/cook at higher temps.

Smokeville · September 28, 2009, 08:00:30 AM

Hi Kevin!

Welcome to the world of wondering! You will wonder when to start, you will wonder when it will be done, you will wonder if it's done and you'll wonder if it will taste good. While you wait you will want to open the door every 10 minutes and stab it with a instant read thermometer. Which simply prolongs the wait and lets all the great tasting juices squirt out.

Out of everything I've wondered and waited for, the most consistent is that it ends up tasting great. Probably the only thing that just didn't work was the smoked banana recipe found on the Bradley website. And I think the bananas were too green.

All of this is why smoking is such a great hobby! It is probably more art than science, and probably more so than any other form of cooking I've tried.

Regards, Rich

OU812 · September 28, 2009, 08:56:27 AM

Looks like you figured out how to get it done but the 185 F seems like it would be dry, I cook to 160 F when the bird is not cured. When doing boneless skinless breast that has ben cured I only take the IT to 140 F

The temp will rise as the bird is resting.

As CRG has stated the time is only a base line to start looking at the IT and getting the other eats ready for the feast. The IT is the thing that matters no matter how long it takes.

When I do fresh chicken I like to pull out of the smoker at 140 F and finish to 160 F on the grill to crisp up the skin.

KevinG · September 28, 2009, 01:19:10 PM

Thanks all, I guess I have a learning curve to work out. HR - I guess I worded my statement badly, but I meant to say that the recipe says it should be done in 2 to 3 hours, but when I checked after 2 hours it only reached 140 F. I kind of figured it wouldn't be done since the temp is lower, but didn't know how long it should take and if it should actually reach 185 F or even 160/165 F if that's what the Govt suggests. I'll have to try it again, using KyNolas idea with the vent. I do like Wildcats idea of throwing it on the grill to crisp the skin idea.

Thanks again

Kevin

Smokeville · September 28, 2009, 01:41:04 PM

One thing I get caught up on is putting the meat in the smoker right from the fridge, instead of taking it out and letting it come up to near room temperature for about an hour.

Considering the fridge is about 36F or so, that can be an extra 30F the Bradley has to overcome.

This always gives me trouble with pork butt because to get them into the smoker for 9am means I gotta get them out of the fridge around 7:30-8am (on a Saturday!).

Rich

Wildcat · September 28, 2009, 01:53:13 PM

Quote from: Smokeville on September 28, 2009, 01:41:04 PM
One thing I get caught up on is putting the meat in the smoker right from the fridge, instead of taking it out and letting it come up to near room temperature for about an hour.

Considering the fridge is about 36F or so, that can be an extra 30F the Bradley has to overcome.

This always gives me trouble with pork butt because to get them into the smoker for 9am means I gotta get them out of the fridge around 7:30-8am (on a Saturday!).

Rich

I do butts all the time. I do not worry about it. I take it out of the fridge a couple of hours prior to smoking, if I have time and remember. If I do not have time or forget to, then I simply put it in the smoker anyway. Sure it takes longer in the smoker to heat up, but unless you are smoking in very cold temps, who cares? It will take time to heat up regardless of which method you use.

Smokeville · September 28, 2009, 02:24:23 PM

Quote from: Wildcat on September 28, 2009, 01:53:13 PM
Quote from: Smokeville on September 28, 2009, 01:41:04 PM
One thing I get caught up on is putting the meat in the smoker right from the fridge, instead of taking it out and letting it come up to near room temperature for about an hour.

Considering the fridge is about 36F or so, that can be an extra 30F the Bradley has to overcome.

This always gives me trouble with pork butt because to get them into the smoker for 9am means I gotta get them out of the fridge around 7:30-8am (on a Saturday!).

Rich

I do butts all the time. I do not worry about it. I take it out of the fridge a couple of hours prior to smoking, if I have time and remember. If I do not have time or forget to, then I simply put it in the smoker anyway. Sure it takes longer in the smoker to heat up, but unless you are smoking in very cold temps, who cares? It will take time to heat up regardless of which method you use.

I was thinking more in the context of KevinG's original problem, and starting temperature is a factor that throws a wrench in the timing plumbing for a newbie.... For me, the problem isn't knowing when it's done but trying to have it done when people are walking around with their bibs on and a wild look in their eyes... and that darn butt is stuck with another hour(s) to go....

Actually, another problem I have is that the old fridge in the basement tends to be colder at the back so it can actually crystallize the rear of the butt.... and one end is at 190F and the other is at 185F....

KyNola · September 28, 2009, 07:13:56 PM

Hey Smokeville,
190 at one end, 185 at the other end of the butt? Call it done. Crack open a cold refreshing beverage and FTC for a couple of hours and then pull. Careful...you're going to burn your fingers! ;)

Seriously, good to go.

KyNola

classicrockgriller · September 28, 2009, 07:19:58 PM

yep, stick a fork (or two) in it,........it's done

KevinG · September 29, 2009, 05:09:04 AM

Quote from: Smokeville on September 28, 2009, 02:24:23 PM
Quote from: Wildcat on September 28, 2009, 01:53:13 PM
Quote from: Smokeville on September 28, 2009, 01:41:04 PM
One thing I get caught up on is putting the meat in the smoker right from the fridge, instead of taking it out and letting it come up to near room temperature for about an hour.

Considering the fridge is about 36F or so, that can be an extra 30F the Bradley has to overcome.

This always gives me trouble with pork butt because to get them into the smoker for 9am means I gotta get them out of the fridge around 7:30-8am (on a Saturday!).

Rich

I do butts all the time. I do not worry about it. I take it out of the fridge a couple of hours prior to smoking, if I have time and remember. If I do not have time or forget to, then I simply put it in the smoker anyway. Sure it takes longer in the smoker to heat up, but unless you are smoking in very cold temps, who cares? It will take time to heat up regardless of which method you use.

I was thinking more in the context of KevinG's original problem, and starting temperature is a factor that throws a wrench in the timing plumbing for a newbie.... For me, the problem isn't knowing when it's done but trying to have it done when people are walking around with their bibs on and a wild look in their eyes... and that darn butt is stuck with another hour(s) to go....

Actually, another problem I have is that the old fridge in the basement tends to be colder at the back so it can actually crystallize the rear of the butt.... and one end is at 190F and the other is at 185F....

That's a very good point, because I did stick it in the smoker right out of the fridge. I guess that's why I think I need a preservative like nitrite or nitrate or something, because leaving it out and then cooking at a low temperature should invite bacteria.