Two quick cure questions

[TTNuge]

I apologize in advance as I know this has been discussed but I can't find the threads and am having a bit of an argument with a co-worker over jerky and the use of cure.

1)Ground Beef Jerky: I have used the Legg's seasoning packets in the past that you add water to, and am going to be trying a few NePas recipes as well.  When I made my first batch I added some cure to the seasoning and liquid, mixed that up good, added the ground beef and mixed it thoroughly.  At that point, strictly from a cure standpoint how long do I need to wait for the cure to become effective before I smoke and dehydrate it?

2)Whole Muscle Jerky: I am planning on getting a Reveo to marinate in.  Using this I understand I will be able to marinate in 20 mins instead of 24 hours.  How will this affect the time needed for the cure to do it's thing and become effective?

Thanks,

Trent

[FLBentRider]

1. It depends on the cure mix, but the HM stuff that I use is 1/4 inch per 24 hours. (That's from memory I can look it up when I get home)

2. I'm not sure if the reduction in time with the reveo applies to cure, since curing is more of a chemical reaction thing.

[TTNuge]

1. It depends on the cure mix, but the HM stuff that I use is 1/4 inch per 24 hours. (That's from memory I can look it up when I get home)

I'm using Cure #1 mainly.  And the 1/4 inch per 24 hours is kinda where my question arises.  Since it's a liquid all mixed in with ground beef there's really no way of measuring how much penetration it needs since it will be making direct contact with it.  But of course not every single bit of ground beef is going to make contact.

2. I'm not sure if the reduction in time with the reveo applies to cure, since curing is more of a chemical reaction thing.

Exactly, and if you still have to wait 24 hours for the cure to be effective it defeats the main benefit of the Reveo and it's quickness.

[FLBentRider]

1. It depends on the cure mix, but the HM stuff that I use is 1/4 inch per 24 hours. (That's from memory I can look it up when I get home)

I'm using Cure #1 mainly.  And the 1/4 inch per 24 hours is kinda where my question arises.  Since it's a liquid all mixed in with ground beef there's really no way of measuring how much penetration it needs since it will be making direct contact with it.  But of course not every single bit of ground beef is going to make contact.

I know the MH directions specify a different measurement for the cure for ground meat. I'll look when I get home.

2. I'm not sure if the reduction in time with the reveo applies to cure, since curing is more of a chemical reaction thing.

Exactly, and if you still have to wait 24 hours for the cure to be effective it defeats the main benefit of the Reveo and it's quickness.

If it was me, Unless I saw it documented from somwhere I trust, I would wait the time. I'm not messing with botulism.

[TTNuge]

1. It depends on the cure mix, but the HM stuff that I use is 1/4 inch per 24 hours. (That's from memory I can look it up when I get home)

I'm using Cure #1 mainly.  And the 1/4 inch per 24 hours is kinda where my question arises.  Since it's a liquid all mixed in with ground beef there's really no way of measuring how much penetration it needs since it will be making direct contact with it.  But of course not every single bit of ground beef is going to make contact.

I know the MH directions specify a different measurement for the cure for ground meat. I'll look when I get home.

2. I'm not sure if the reduction in time with the reveo applies to cure, since curing is more of a chemical reaction thing.

Exactly, and if you still have to wait 24 hours for the cure to be effective it defeats the main benefit of the Reveo and it's quickness.

If it was me, Unless I saw it documented from somwhere I trust, I would wait the time. I'm not messing with botulism.

In a way that's why I was hoping NePas would chime in.  :D

[FLBentRider]

With the HM kits, the amount of cure is the same for whole muscle meat as ground.

There is a higher ratio of seasoning per lb for ground meat.

They state to refrigerate after applying cure and seasoning to ground meat for at least four hours.

[NePaSmoKer]

Allot of the long time forum regulars know i don't use or like HM.

The cure most makers use is what they call speed cure which is essentially cure 1 or insta cure. Some say sugar cure which is cure and sugar mix. IE Maple cure

When you make jerky and marinate overnight the meat will only take so much marinade, just like marinade for doing for a BBQ. The Reveo sucks the air out thus opening the meat fibers which allow for more marinade penetration. The tumbling just agitates the meat so all the meat surface is saturated with the marinade. After agitation and the vacuum is released the fibers close thus trapping the marinade in the meat.

WHEW I feel like Bill Nye the science guy  :D  :D  :D

[TTNuge]

Thanks NePaSmoker, I really do appreciate your insight into jerky because few have done as much of it as you.

I guess I'm still confused about the way cure works and the time needed to be effective.  I plan on using primarily home made liquid marinades and Cure #1 but does the cure still require an extended length of time to "work" or does it just need contact with the meat?  Therefore with the Reveo since the meat fibers get opened up and the marinade w/cure in it gets forced down into the piece that it only takes the ~20 mins for the cure to effectively prevent botulism?  And the same would go for ground beef, since it is mixed right in with the marinade/cure and getting surface contact with it then it's effective in a short period of time.

I guess it comes down to this.  Does cure need time to become effective or is the time requirements usually associated with it merely based on the length of time it takes to penetrate the meat.?  If all it needs is contact with a majority of the meat then I can understand how it will be effective quickly when using the reveo and/or ground beef.

Thanks Bill Nye! :)

[NePaSmoKer]

Thanks NePaSmoker, I really do appreciate your insight into jerky because few have done as much of it as you.

I guess I'm still confused about the way cure works and the time needed to be effective.  I plan on using primarily home made liquid marinades and Cure #1 but does the cure still require an extended length of time to "work" or does it just need contact with the meat?  Therefore with the Reveo since the meat fibers get opened up and the marinade w/cure in it gets forced down into the piece that it only takes the ~20 mins for the cure to effectively prevent botulism?  And the same would go for ground beef, since it is mixed right in with the marinade/cure and getting surface contact with it then it's effective in a short period of time.

I guess it comes down to this.  Does cure need time to become effective or is the time requirements usually associated with it merely based on the length of time it takes to penetrate the meat.?  If all it needs is contact with a majority of the meat then I can understand how it will be effective quickly when using the reveo and/or ground beef.

I been doing this for over 30 years and at one time did use salt petre (very unsafe) only good for bombs  ;D  And i'm still around.

In the end do what you feel is right.

Enjoy

Bill Nye   ;D  ;D .....................nepasnye  :D

The cure time that are in some of the pack might say cure time needed? This is anywhere from 4 to 12 hours. Mostly done on strip jerky.
Time to be affective starts almost at the time you mix the marinade in with the meat, Strip or GB. Take note that in the old days (before salt petre) they only used salt! Most of your marinades and dry kits have a large quantity of salt added. IE Soy, Worcestershire and salt that you add.

So what i am saying is don't worry about botulism because your starting your jerky at 140* or higher right?

Take when i do sticks.

I add my 1 tsp of cure to the liquid and then the rest of the dry. Mix into the GB, add ECA mix again then stuff. To refrigerate is up to me. Some times when its late or i have more than 5 lbs i fridge. Other times i stuff and smoke right away.

Same goes for GB jerky. Either mix and fridge or extrude on racks and smoke/dehydrate right away.

Now this.

Purely optional.

Liquid marinade needs some time to marry for the flavor to come together. What i do is make my marinade and set aside for 15 to 45 mins before i add to GB stirring about every 10 mins.

Thanks Bill Nye! :)

[TTNuge]

Thank you sir, that definitely helps!