Research and questions on wings and drumsticks

[EZ Smoker]

I've been thinking about chicken wings, chicken drumsticks, and turkey drumsticks.   I've been thinking I could throw in the turkey legs when I cook the chicken wings, but the truth is that I didn't know thing one about any of the above.  Normally, when embarking on something new, I ask myself how I should do it, but I knew so little that I didn't know what questions to ask.  So I started researching the forum to find out how to cook these things.   I found a bunch of vastly differing information, which allowed me to form intelligent questions to ask myself.  I decided that before I answered those questions, I'd post my research here, then post the questions I'm asking myself.   Any shared knowledge, wisdom, or experience from the gallery of smokers would be highly appreciated.   If you have answers, I'd love to hear them, but don't feel like you need to take the time to answer all my queries.   I think the greatest benefit of this thread is putting all this information in one place, where you can find it all easily.

Note: Though I'm interested in any general information about these things, if you want specifics, I'm using an OBS, an Auber PID, and a Maverick ET-73. 

Section 1:  A quick rundown of my research on chicken wings, chicken drumsticks, and turkey drumsticks

wings: 
Here are a few general statements found in various threads, and basic cooking ideas for wings with links to the threads attached:

OU812 says:  When I smoke wings I set my smoker at 250 F with 2 hr Alder vent wide open then finish on the grill over med high heat turning often. Nice and crisp.

OU812 says: Sprinkle with some creole seasoning smoke 2 hr Alder then baste with 1/4 cup butter 1/4 cup Louisiana wing sauce and on to the grill to crisp up a little then baste again and chow.

FLBentRider says: I think a high heat finish on the grill is needed to fix the skin.  Poultry skin does not take well to low heat applications.

From OU812, smoked 2 hrs w/apple, finished on grill.  used a couple of different commercial seasonings: Louisiana chicken wing seasoning and cajun shake. 
http://forum.bradleysmoker.com/index.php?topic=15347.0

From OU812, smoked 2 hrs w/oak, finished in oven.  Unknown seasoning followed by CT.
http://forum.bradleysmoker.com/index.php?topic=14462.0

mikecorn used some EVOO, McCormick BBQ seasoning and season all, and said: "Wings and Drummies for 2 hours at @ 225*. With mesquite.  They were pretty much done. Put them on the grill for a bit just to make sure."   
http://forum.bradleysmoker.com/index.php?topic=11016.0

Some use the BE after an hour of smoke, but I don't have a BE
http://forum.bradleysmoker.com/index.php?topic=9062.0
http://forum.bradleysmoker.com/index.php?topic=9131.0

Chicken drumsticks

snelly said: "Once again I rubbed with adobo and lemon pepper.  I smoked with some cherry at 250 2.5 hours.  After the smoke was gone I moved them to the grill with some tom's bbq sauce.  I am sure they would have been great right out of the smoker but the brinkmasn was getting jealous."   http://forum.bradleysmoker.com/index.php?topic=15400.0

Habs said:  "With only a dozen legs, you should have no problems with heat. When most of moisture has evaporated, you can move your vent opening to 1/2 opening. Coat legs with olive oil, use your favorite rub, apply some rub under the skin, and finish on the grill to improve skin texture."

FLBR said: "I've done legs before. I brined them for a few hours and smoked them @ 225 with Hickory. It only took about 2 hours to get to an IT of 160F"
http://forum.bradleysmoker.com/index.php?topic=10227.0

Turkey drumsticks (many things here are applicable to chicken drumsticks as well.)

STC seems to have a great buttermilk-based brine for turkey or chicken drumsticks. He says, regarding Turkey drumsticks:  "I smoked them in the 210-225 range (using the 'Special Blend' pucks for 2 hours of smoke) for about 4.5 hours total.  Flipped/rotated the racks once after the smoke ended.    At 165 I pulled them for 2 hours of FTC. (foil then wrap in towel and place in warmed cooler)"
http://forum.bradleysmoker.com/index.php?;topic=11085.0

Pasmoker has a nice brine as well:
http://www.susanminor.org/forums/showthread.php?37-Pasmoker-s-Chicken-Brine

And here's Iceman's poultry brine:  he used this for turkey drumsticks in the thread I was reading. 
http://www.susanminor.org/forums/showthread.php?289-Basic-Poultry-Brine&p=451

FLBentRider says of his turkey legs:  "I brine mine in (salt) brown sugar or molassess and then apply 4 hours of Hickory. Folks @ my office say mine are better than the Mouse's (Disney)."
http://forum.bradleysmoker.com/index.php?topic=7514.0

HabaneroSmoker says: I smoke/cook my turkey legs to an internal temperature of 160°F.
Because it is dark meat I find that brining is not necessary but it does improve the moistness. The brining times you mentioned (4-6 hours) are about right. 
FTC'ing turkey legs will make the skin more rubbery or leathery. If you finish early it would be better to reheat them.
Finishing them on the grill will improve the skin texture, but I would not wrap them in foil. Wrapping them in foil and they heating will not help the skin to crisp.
Some things that I do to improve the skin texture, rub skin with an oil, and very lightly dust with cornstarch prior to applying the rub. Remove them from the smoker and finish them on the grill or oven.


Section 2:  applying the research

To figure out how I want to use what I've learned, I first must ask myself several questions.  My current questions for wings or drumsticks (chicken or turkey) are:

1. Should I brine?  I'm assuming I could use the same brine for either chicken or turkey.

2. If I brine, should I then rinse and/or pat dry and/or drip dry. (STC didn't rinse from his buttermilk brine, but Iceman and Pasmoker did.  all three dried the meat after brining.  STC dripped dry, Iceman patted dry, and Pasmoker didn't specify drying method). 

3. How long should I brine?  Different length of time for turkey legs from chicken wings or chicken legs?

4. Should I use some other seasoning instead of brining?  If so, what?  I assume I wouldn't season in addition to brining.

5. What wood should I use?  In stock I have apple, alder, maple, special blend, hickory, pecan, and, of course, that great Texican wood that starts with an M. 

6. How long should I apply smoke? 

7. What temperature should I use in the smoker?

8. How do I know when wings or drumsticks (chicken or turkey) are done?

9. How far open should the vent be when I smoke my wings and/or drumsticks?  Why?

My goal is to learn what I can from these questions, then form a plan (or possible several different plans) of how to cook these things.  But I thought I might as well post my research both for the benefit of readers and to gain the wisdom of other smokers.

[classicrockgriller]

WOW! I am impressed!

[ArnieM]

EZ, you've obviously done enough research to become totally confused.  I'd break your post down to the yard bird in question.  Then, try them one at a time.

Brining is good for poultry and pork.  It works for whole chicken, turkey breast and whole turkeys.  The time varies depending on the size of the meat.  I wouldn't bother brining wings; they're pretty much sealed.

Buttermilk works well on skinless, boneless breasts.  It's a good start for coated deep frying.

The smoker temp should be high, vent open for poultry.

Other than that, come back with separate posts for what you want to do.

[hal4uk]

EZ, the truth is...  It's hard to mess up chicken.
The only two things you really wanna AVOID are under-cooking and over-cooking.

Chicken is about the most forgiving thing you can smoke or grill (or both).

Brine it, rub it, slap it.. Then grill it, fry it, smoke it, or whatever...
Of course, If ya smoke it, ya might wanna finish it on high heat (on a grill) to firm up the skin.

Other than that, just remember, the wings are CROWD PLEASERS.
EVERONE LOVES WINGS.

Wings were Colonel Harland Sanders favorite piece.

You'd probably think I was lyin' if I told you I knew that 'cause he told me so.
But, he did.
Awrighten.

[Habanero Smoker]

From your questions I'm not sure you will get a definitive answers. You are going to get a variety of answers, because different people like the same food prepared in different ways. I can answer your questions the way I do things.

1. Should I brine?  I'm assuming I could use the same brine for either chicken or turkey.
First check the package to see if they have already been brined. Especially if you are using frozen wings; they are often injected with a brine. You can use the same brine for both. I generally do not brine dark meat. I find that they remain juicy, unless you really over cook the leg or wings.

2. If I brine, should I then rinse and/or pat dry and/or drip dry. (STC didn't rinse from his buttermilk brine, but Iceman and Pasmoker did.  all three dried the meat after brining.  STC dripped dry, Iceman patted dry, and Pasmoker didn't specify drying method). 
If I use a brine, this depends on what type of brine I use, and the salt content (salinity). Generally I will give it a light rinse.


3. How long should I brine?  Different length of time for turkey legs from chicken wings or chicken legs?
This depends on the strength (salinity) of your brine. For chicken parts are generally brined 1 - 3 hours. I've never brined wings, but have used a marinade with a high salt content.

4. Should I use some other seasoning instead of brining?  If so, what?  I assume I wouldn't season in addition to brining.
You can brine and also add a seasoning. Just make sure your seasoning has no or very little salt. Seasoning is a personal choice - Cajun, Southern, Asian, Jerk, Buffalo styles - it's up to you.

5. What wood should I use?  In stock I have apple, alder, maple, special blend, hickory, pecan, and, of course, that great Texican wood that starts with an M. 
For poultry I like to use the fruit woods or maple.

6. How long should I apply smoke? 
I generally apply 1:40 - 2:00 hours.

7. What temperature should I use in the smoker?
As high as you can get it. I generally will use 250°F

8. How do I know when wings or drumsticks (chicken or turkey) are done?
For wings I go by the color of the juices. Prick the wings and if the juice run clear they are done. For drumsticks I use a combination of time and an instant read thermometer. When they reach 160°F - 162° I take them out. Or remove them early and finish on the grill or high temperature oven.

9. How far open should the vent be when I smoke my wings and/or drumsticks?  Why?
Chicken with skin has a lot of moisture, and you need to have a way to get that moisture out of the cabinet as soon as possible. If not, the heat in the cabinet is being used to evaporate the moisture, not towards cooking your food. This will keep your cabinet temperature down. So that is why it is recommended to keep your vent 3/4 - fully open. I found that when most of the moisture has been expelled you can then use a smaller vent opening to improve your heat. Also the high moisture in the cabinet will increase the rubbery (leathery) texture of the skin.

[BuyLowSellHigh]

Hab has answered your questions extremely well.  I am a big fan of brining in the right situation.  An important key is to carefully read the label first.  If the chicken or turkey has been "enhanced" it must say so on the label (Federal regulation).  It will typically say something like contains up to x% ____ where the blank is broth, solution of, etc.  If that's the case DO NOT brine.  On turkeys also watch out for the ones that contain vegetable oil or something similar.

It is increasingly difficult to find chickens and whole turkeys that have NOT been enhanced.  The ones that are not are often labeled as something like All Natural, etc., and will most often cost more.  All of the major chicken producers have chickens that fit this description, but they are not as common and some stores just don't carry them.  The Safeway group (Safeway, Randall's, etc.) typically stock the Sanderson's line which is usually unenhanced.

[DarqMan]

I'm so spoiled by Alton Brown's wing recipe that I'm not sure I'd try smoking them.  He steams them for 10 minutes to render the fat out of the skin, then chills them in the fridge for an hour, pats dry and bakes for 20 minutes on each side at 400-450ish.  Finally toss in sauce when they come out of oven  They come out tasting like a fried wing but they're baked... crisp and delicious.  Not being able to crisp the skin on the smoker and having to do the additional work to grill them seems like a lot of work for wings... well to me it does.

[EZ Smoker]

This is awesome.  My intent in this thread was to gain general knowledge, and I've already learned a lot.   So before I ask my remaining questions... I'm smokin' some wings.   Just preheated the smoker, figuring on 2 hours of apple, then finish on the grill.   For seasoning, there's been a raging battle between the Texan in me and the Italian in me, but I think I've worked out a nice compromise.  I'll coat all the wings in olive oil, then add Tony Chachere's Creole to some of them and to the others I'll add salt, garlic, and rosemary.   We're putting Chachere's on more of them because, frankly, my wife's just Texan, not Italian. 

Ambient temp is 92 degrees F, and my smoker is out of the sun and wind, in a little shed that has become known as "the smoking section".    Thanks for all the help.   I'll be back later to ask how my cooking method would need to change if I were doing chicken drumsticks instead.

Thanks again,
Scott

P.S. Darqman, I'm intrigued by this Alton Brown method.    I think I'll try that too.  Thanks.

   
 

[ArnieM]

Chicken - My opinion.  Hal said chicken is forgiving.  Not around here.  Certainly underdone is NG.  If it's brined and you go a little over temp, it's still good.  Without the brine, it dries out.

I love my Buffalo wings or any wings for that matter.  I've tried Alton's recipe and didn't care for it.  In winter, the wings go into the deep fat fryer.  Otherwise, they go on a medium grill.  Put on my favorite sauce(s) when nearly done and flip a couple of times.  They come out crunchy and tasty.  Sorry, no smoke.

Turkey in the OBS came out really well.  Smoked and partially cooked and then into the oven for a crisp skin.

I've had the OBS for almost a year and I'm still experimenting.  It takes time to adjust to your own or your family's tastes.  But, that's part of the fun.

Enjoy

[EZ Smoker]

Wings went in the smoker (bottom two racks) about 50 minutes ago.  I'm figuring on rotating the racks (top to bottom and front to back) in a few minutes.   Cabinet temp is still pretty low though.   It was 260 before I put the wings in, but it dropped to 200 and has since risen to 222.  Still, I think I should probably rotate them.

[EZ Smoker]

So here's my first shot at these wings we've been talking about.  I took 17 wings, coated them all in olive oil, then...

seasoned 10 with Tony Chachere's Creole


seasoned 6 with salt, garlic, and rosemary, and one with McMormick Perfect Pinch Rotisserie Chicken seasoning


Chachere's coming out of the smoker, ready for the grill


Others coming out of the smoker


Finished product



The skin was crisp, and the meat was juicy.  The McCormick wasn't bad but lacked zing.   The rosemary/garlic wings were very good.  But the Chachere's wings were outstanding.   I really thought they were great.   One problem, we had a bit of a fire on the grill, which caused us to remove some of the wings before the underside had crisped up perfectly.   But most of them had just the skin I was looking for.   Thanks for all the help.

I'll have questions tomorrow about doing the same thing with chicken drumsticks.   But for tonight, I bask in my newfound success.   Thanks again to everyone for helping.

[classicrockgriller]

That just looks like $$$$.

Try the chachere's "More Spice" ;D

[Habanero Smoker]

They all look good. You are lucky, it is hard to get fresh wings these days -  in may area. If they are around they often cost more then chicken breast.

[squirtthecat]

Awesome!

[BuyLowSellHigh]

Beautiful job!  Those look really good. 

Tell us please, where did you find those great looking wings?