aww man, something isn't right

[HuntinFool]

So I made a 10 pound batch of kielbasa using rytek's recipe.  smoked until about 120-125 and then into the 170 water pot until IT was 152.  Sausage has a great initial taste, but then half way through the chew, there is a horrible stale taste to it - it is really inedible.  I've made alot of different sausages before, but never had this happen.  Any ideas???????
for binder I used 2 cups of veginate (fine soy flour)
for cure, 2 tsp Prague powder (same as cure #1 - )
the pork trim I used was in the freezer for about three to four months before I used it.
the moose meat I used was from October 2008.  I cut away any parts that were freezer burned.  That night I used the left over ground moose to make tacos and the meat was fine, so I don't know if it was the old meat or not, although this is the only thing I can think of. 

Any help would be much appreciated.

[Habanero Smoker]

Have you used soy flour in that amount in the past? Using soy flour is different then using Soy Protein Concentrate. I haven't made Rytek's Kielbasa recipe, but that may be your problem. If it was bad meat, you would have noticed the taste immediately.

I know the 2 cups of Soy Protein, is above the maximum amount that is recommended for 10 pounds of sausage before it will begin to alter the taste of your sausage. It is recommended that you use 3% and do not go over 5% of the green weight, and you have about 6% (if not more), and when you measure you tend to pack more then the recommended amount.

[NePaSmoKer]

I have to ditto what Habs said. Soy flour is different than soy protein concentrate. When i did my Andouille i only used 7 1/2 T of soy protein.

Also the freezer burn can make the meat taste weird and can travel deeper into the meat fibers.

[HuntinFool]

I hope you guys are right, I was thouroughly dissapointed when this happened.

but on pg292 of the new version, the recipe for Smoke Venison Polish Sausage
-the recipe calls for 2 cups of soy protein concentrate (10 lbs recipe)
-my local butcher supply shop gave me a bag of what they use as binder called Butcher's and Packers Veginate (fine soya flour), it contains right around 2lbs 2oz of the stuff and the whole bag is good for 22lbs or what it says "10 KG of chopped meat"
- i took two cups of the stuff (according to Rytek's recipe, and it seemed to be less than half of the bag.....so if I'm thinking right, I actually used a little less binder than what I should have.

Sooooo.....is rytek's recipe out to lunch? is the soya flour not a good idea?  or should i just not worry about it and quit making sausage because I'm starting to get fat? haha....never.

[NePaSmoKer]

Ditch the flour and go with soy protein concentrate or dry non-fat powdered milk. Use 1 cup of powdered milk mixed into 1 cup cold water.

[HuntinFool]

Thanks NePaS. I'm gonna give 'er another go.  On the plus side, the 170 degree water cooking method really produced a beautiful looking sausage.

[Habanero Smoker]

I wasn't able to find that product on Butcher & Packer site. I'm agree with NePas; either use Soy Protein Concentrate or Powdered Dried Milk. It is best to measure by weight; if you measure soy protein by volume you don't pack it in the cup. You need to spoon it into the cup until it is overflowing then level. I find that it is difficult to eye ball how much is half a package of powder; especially when after the package has been opened and the powder has been shifted around and resettled; so you could have been using more then half the package. Also a half package of soya flour could be at the 5% maximum amount to use. But those high percentages are not generally recommended, so if you are getting that off taste, reduce the percentage down to 3%.

I was able to find the recipe you are referring to (pg. 296 in 3rd addition). I don't understand why he is using so much soy protein, and it doesn't look like a miss print. By my calculations 2 cups of soy protein (not soya flour) weight ≈11 ounces (or ≈7% of the green weight of 10 pounds of meat), if measured correctly.

Ideally for 10 pounds of meat and fat, you would want about 5 (4.8 ) ounces of Soy Protein Concentrate (≈1 cup) to give you 3% of the green weight, but not use more then 8 ounces (≈1.5 cups); which would give you the 5% of the green weight.

[BuyLowSellHigh]

I wasn't able to find that product on Butcher & Packer site.

http://www.butchersandpackers.com/spices.htm

FSM-B3528   Veginate,  Soya Protein 1kg
FSM-B3528B Veginate,  Soya Protein 20kg

[HuntinFool]

I'm guessing the reason he calls for so much in the recipe is to combat the possible dryness of the final product due to the use of 80% venison. 

Well. I'm gonna get rid of the veginate and maybe try the protein instead.  In the mean time, I better go check my whitefish in the smoker.
Thanks for all your help and advice guys.

[Habanero Smoker]

From the above link it is difficult to tell what Veginate,  Soya Protein is since there is no description of the product. To be Soy Protein Concentrate it has to be 70% or higher in soy protein.

In my opinion his recipe has too much soy protein concentrate, and it is above the recommended amount for Soy Protein Concentrate. That recipe also calls for 20% pork fat (trimmings), so you may be better off reducing the soy protein concentrate to 1 cup or no greater then 1.5 cups. (Soy Concentrate is also used as a fat substitute, at the rate of 1 cup plus 1 pint of water for 10 pounds of lean meat; with no additional soy protein needed).

If you use the same amount with Soy Protein Concentrate I would be interested in your out come. Keep in mind if the taste is terrible, there is not much you can do to save it; if it comes out a little dry at least you can use it to flavor other dishes.

Also let us know how your fish turns out.

[HuntinFool]

Well, In case any of you are interested.  I figured out what the bad taste was.  It is hard to believe, but it was on account of boiling the sausage.

I did another batch of Kubasa last week - exactly the same way that I did it before (I was determined to find out what the prob was)  Boiled about half the batch and smoked the rest.  The boiled stuff was absolutely inedible.  The smoked stuff was fantastic.

Maybe we have something bad in our water here........??

[NePaSmoKer]

Thats why i use distilled water. Even though i am on well water, ya just never know whats in it. City water thats been treated can react with the cure and ingredients in your sausage.

[TestRocket]

Mystery solved! But it's got to make you wonder a little about your water?

[Habanero Smoker]

If your water contains enough sulfur, you may not be able to smell it, but once it is heated it becomes very noticeable. But if it is the water, and you use that for cooking and coffee or other hot drinks you would notice an off taste in those cooked items also.