Can I brine too long?

johnnytahoe · June 09, 2005, 07:08:19 PM

I put about 10 pounds of Salmon in the cure for Indian Candy last Friday night, only to find on Sunday that my smoker needs a replacement part to operate. I have since, left the salmon in the marinade.

Can this be too long for it to sit? I probably won't get my replacement part until early next week.

Will my salmon survive this extened bath (it has been covered and in the fridge)?

Chez Bubba · June 10, 2005, 04:12:01 AM

Johnny,

Who did you call about getting the replacement part? If your smoker's under warranty, Bradley usually has the fix out the next day or two.

Kirk

http://www.chezbubba.com
Ya think next time I check into a hotel & they ask "Smoking or Non?" they would mind?

Kummok · June 10, 2005, 07:04:54 AM

JT:
Take the fish outta the brine and throw it in the freezer. When your smoker's 10-8 again, thaw it out, let it dry till the pellicle forms and smoke it...with yours being in the reefer since yesterday, it could be a little salty, but I'm sure it will still be a hit! As many mistakes as I've made, there still hasn't been a batch that was unedible....even stuff that gets a little black is good with red fish magic sprinkled on after smoking[:p]

I've had to do this freezer thang at times when I overestimated the space in the Bradleys and ended up with too much brined fish. I put mine in the freezer right away after seeing I didn't have enough rack space left...seems to stop or at least slow down the absorption process.

35 years of extinguishing smoking stuff and now I'm wondering WHY!
Kummok @ Homer, AK USA

johnnytahoe · June 10, 2005, 04:02:24 PM

Thanks for the replys. That poor salmon had been in the brine for 7 days. If it was orignally frozen, should I still freeze it again? I've got a bad feeling about it. I smelled it this morning and it seems ok. Should I even risk it at this point....

what a waste :-(

Kummok · June 10, 2005, 06:48:20 PM

Dang!......Sounds like you'd better get into the olive business[;)][:D][:D] I had an uncle that brined olives and swore that they weren't ready until you scraped away the moldy stuff at the top of the brine to dip down to the olives... [xx(] Never looked "right", but the olives were GREAT![:p]

I've never brined 7 days, so I can't give experienced advice. I'm guessing that the fish would taste pretty salty.

I'm hoping that Manxman sees this and chimes in on the safety issue. My reefer storage method is filleted boneless/skinless steaks sandwiched between layers of at least two paper towels, resting on and covered with two paper towels, on a plate and covered with food wrap and kept at around 38°F. Using that method, I can keep fresh salmon in the reefer for up to 5 days before I either cook it or freeze it, (and salmon is plentiful here![:D][}:)][;)][:p]).

Speaking just for myself, I'd give it a try if salmon is hard to get where you are, ( If it's farmed salmon, it's not worth the risk[;)][:D][:D])...worst that can happen, (if you don't get food poisoning[:(]), is that it tastes so bad that your dog bites you when you try to feed it to him, & you're out the time and wasted pucks. If you get sick or die, don't tell anyone that you got this from Kummok[;)][;)].....I CAN think of worse ways to go than "Death by Smoked Salmon"!

35 years of extinguishing smoking stuff and now I'm wondering WHY!
Kummok @ Homer, AK USA

manxman · June 11, 2005, 10:17:50 AM

Hi johnnytahoe,

<blockquote id="quote">quote:<hr height="1" noshade id="quote">'ve got a bad feeling about it.<hr height="1" noshade id="quote"></blockquote id="quote">

I would follow your instincts, if you have a bad feeling about it even if you go ahead and smoke the salmon that gut feeling will probably spoil the enjoyment anyway![:(]

Contaminated food that causes food poisoning cannot be determned by smell, that is one of the problems, it normally smells ok! [:(]

You said the salmon had been in the brine for 7 days covered and in the fridge but how long had it been defrosted in total? Had it been kept at fridge temperature the whole time?

My feeling is that it would be safer to discard it, 7 days in brine at fridge temperature may be ok (apart from how salty it would be!!)but there is a large element of doubt.

I would not keep any fish at fridge temperature any longer than 3-4 days personally, 5 at the absolute maximum.

I must admit I have refrozen fish that has been defrosted for a short while (day or two) and never had a problem.

A lot of fish nowadays is imported frozen into the UK, defrosted for selling them refrozen by the consumer in any case.

Let us know how you got on whatever you decided to do, it may help someone in the future.

Manxman.

johnnytahoe · June 11, 2005, 09:29:39 PM

hmmmm. interesting. I sure don't want to get sick (or get anyone else sick for that matter)

I got the smoker up and running this morning, rinsed off the pieces (smelled fine, but I guess that doesn't mean anything) and popped 'em in the smoker.

These were fresh caught salmon from a trip I took last August. They were flash forzen and kept in my block freezer at -20F until last Thursday. I thawed them in the fridge (at 37F overnight and popped them in the brine on Friday night. When I pulled them out this morning the temperature of the brine where they were completely covered was 36F. I couldn't bare to throw it all out.

What if I finish them in my oven at 300F to kill off any possible bacteria which would be extremely unpleasant to say the least?

Kummok · June 12, 2005, 12:35:33 AM

JT:
The concensus up here amongst my picky salmon smokin' buddies is that they'd smoke/eat it in the condition you've described. I'll defer to Manxman on the "killing bacteria", but from a taste/texture perspective, 300°F is gonna make it hardrock pocket meat for the trail. Also, I know that it's probably not PC these days, but we still call it "squaw candy" up here[;)] From a head of the family perspective, I'd let my wife try it first...now that's REALLY not PC!! (and not true, of course...in truth I'd give it to the cat first, especially if I thought it was tainted)[;)][}:)][:D][:D]

35 years of extinguishing smoking stuff and now I'm wondering WHY!
Kummok @ Homer, AK USA

Chez Bubba · June 12, 2005, 04:28:56 AM

K-man,

I know you're kidding about Sandy, but the cat thing is just too dang funny![:D][}:)][8D]

Kirk

http://www.chezbubba.com
Ya think next time I check into a hotel & they ask "Smoking or Non?" they would mind?

JJC · June 13, 2005, 04:33:12 AM

Hi All,

The only thing I might add to the food safety issue is that if the strength (salt concentration) of the brine were high enough, and the fish were in the fridge the whole time, they should be safe to eat. I would want a salt concentration of 15%. That would be 150 grams salt per liter of brine, or 5 ounces of salt per quart.

Does that sound OK to you, Manx?

John
Newton MA

JJC · June 13, 2005, 04:35:54 AM

<blockquote id="quote">quote:<hr height="1" noshade id="quote">Originally posted by Kummok
 JT:
...in truth I'd give it to the cat first, especially if I thought it was tainted)[;)][}:)][:D][:D]

<hr height="1" noshade id="quote"></blockquote id="quote">
Kummock, as much as I love cats, I have to admit I've known a few that I wouldn't mind testing out some questionable meat on . . . of course, most of them have been the neighbor's cats [:D]

John
Newton MA

Kummok · June 13, 2005, 07:21:00 AM

<blockquote id="quote">quote:<hr height="1" noshade id="quote">Originally posted by JJC
<hr height="1" noshade id="quote"></blockquote id="quote">......as much as I love cats, I have to admit I've known a few that I wouldn't mind testing out some questionable meat on . . . of course, most of them have been the neighbor's cats [:D]

John
Newton MA
[/quote]

I gotta admit, John, my wife's cat and I have a love/hate relationship....I pretend to hate it and it loves me for it. Go figger[?][;)]

manxman · June 13, 2005, 09:42:06 AM

Hi Folks,

<blockquote id="quote">quote:<hr height="1" noshade id="quote">The only thing I might add to the food safety issue is that if the strength (salt concentration) of the brine were high enough, and the fish were in the fridge the whole time, they should be safe to eat. I would want a salt concentration of 15%. That would be 150 grams salt per liter of brine, or 5 ounces of salt per quart.

Does that sound OK to you, Manx?<hr height="1" noshade id="quote"></blockquote id="quote">

Yes, that was something else that crossed my mind and given the further information that johnnytahoe gave it probably would be ok, although I personnally would have either thrown it away or perhaps refrozen..... however that is probably just me being over cautious because of the enviroment in which I work.[}:)]

The other thing is that I am restricted to shop bought farmed salmon which is cheap and easy to come by..... wild salmon that you have caught yourself perhaps put a different perspective on things!![:D]

How did the salmon turn out JT.... tough call on whether to test it on the cats or the wife!!?? This would make an interesting discussion topic on the forum in it's own right.[:D][:D][}:)][}:)]

Me..... I would opt for the mother-in-law!![:D][:D]

Manxman.

Kummok · June 13, 2005, 07:29:53 PM

<blockquote id="quote">quote:<hr height="1" noshade id="quote">Originally posted by manxman
 Hi Folks,

..... wild salmon that you have caught yourself perhaps put a different perspective on things!![:D] .... tough call on whether to test it on the cats or the wife!!??....Me..... I would opt for the mother-in-law!![:D][:D]
Manxman.
<hr height="1" noshade id="quote"></blockquote id="quote">

Your "wild salmon" perspective just qualified you for the understatement of 2005, Manxman!....except, although catching them is a hoot, it's definitely a TASTE thang![:p][;)][:D]

As far as the mother-in-law testing, been there/done that, may she rest in peace![:0][:D][}:)][;)]

I AM getting a little concerned about JT's silence though! [?][;)][:D]

35 years of extinguishing smoking stuff and now I'm wondering WHY!
Kummok @ Homer, AK USA

manxman · June 13, 2005, 08:23:03 PM

Hi Kummock,

<blockquote id="quote">quote:<hr height="1" noshade id="quote">I AM getting a little concerned about JT's silence though!<hr height="1" noshade id="quote"></blockquote id="quote">

Mmmmm, it's been a couple of days since JT posted....... suspicious![:0][:0]

<blockquote id="quote">quote:<hr height="1" noshade id="quote">Your "wild salmon" perspective just qualified you for the understatement of 2005, Manxman!....<hr height="1" noshade id="quote"></blockquote id="quote">

Yes, we Manx can be the master of understatement although in this instance it was meant as such!![:D][:D]

I have done a couple of batches of hot smoked farm salmon to date and both have turned out absolutely brilliant, I can only imagine what wild salmon would be like tho!![:(][:(]

There are only perhaps a couple of dozen wild salmon caught from the rivers around here per annum according to the returns from the license holders, a friend of mine had a 7lb one last year and he had been trying for several years!![:(][:(]

At least I get to catch plenty of fresh (wild!) seafood which makes up for it to some extent!![:D][:D]

Manxman.