Need long shelf life for smoked sausage

allthai · June 26, 2005, 10:31:12 AM

greetings from Thailand,[?]

I am involved in feeding hundreds of children in homes all across Thailand. Since I like to make and smoke my own sausage we came up with an idea I need some help with.

All the the villages we help have no electricity or means of refridgeration so most eat only vegetables and canned fish. We want to supply them with smoked sausage however I don't know how long they can store the sausage without refridgeration? It needs to keep for at least ten days when we can resupply them. We are talking 500 Kilos per week of sausage to deliver all over Thailand.

I now use salt and vitimin C but most of the nitrates etc we can't get here. What should we do? Any and all suggestions are welcome. First test delivery is 60 Kilograms on Feb. 3, 2005 and I don't want the kids to get sick a week later from eating the sausage.

Kind regards,
Randy gaudet
Chiang Mai
Thailand

I love making my own sausage here in Thailand because the store bought products are nothinh but hot dogs.

owrstrich · June 26, 2005, 04:24:11 PM

i would investigate making jerky instead of sausage....

jerky will last for weeks and weeks without refrigeration...

yous gotts to eat...

owrstrich

Oldman · June 26, 2005, 05:01:34 PM

<blockquote id="quote">quote:<hr height="1" noshade id="quote"> we help have no electricity or means of refridgeration so most eat only vegetables and canned fish. <hr height="1" noshade id="quote"></blockquote id="quote">Interesting... have you not considered Solar Ovens? If not you might want to contact Rotary International. They work with 3rd world countries to help establish a whole village solar oven. To date more than 50 VILLAGER SUN OVENS have been placed throughout the world. I've eaten breads, cookies, and had full meals cooked using a solar oven. This certainly would go a long ways in opening up the door to eating fresh killed meats.

I agree with these benefits:

<ul><li>provide a source of safe, sustainable energy</li>
<li>prevent deforestation from creating irreparable ecological destruction</li>
<li>provide nutritional, inexpensive food for local citizens</li>
<li>establish self-sustaining micro-bakeries</li>
<li>improve the quality of life</li>
<li>aid villages with community development through micro-enterprise and economic empowerment</li> </ul>

Before I get to your sausage question you may find that Jerky is going to be easier to create and safer seeing how you only have salt to work with.

Not knowing or perhaps never having access to your types of meat the following Jerky proposed here is simply the salt cure. I will use an example that I'm aware of. Using a very lean piece of meat like the "eye of the round" cut of beef, once it is dried while quite hard it can be sliced. It will need to be kept in a cheese once dried. Normally it will store for six months without refrigeration

This method is best suited for salting several pieces of meat:

Heavily coat your cuts of fresh meat using course salt. (Do not use any damaged meats.) Place a coating of salt on the bottom of a suitable stainless steel or plastic container. Pack the meat in tightly making sure of a good coating of salt between layers and sides of container. Place container in a cool place and allow to stand for 2 1/2 - 3 weeks. There will be some liquids being drawn from the meat. After this curing time remove meat and rinse in clean water and dry with towel. Hang to dry at room temp, 2- 3 weeks. Do not place in direct sunlight.

As to sausage it will be harder to work with as you only have salt. However, if you are intent on making sausage then for every 4.5 kilogram (10 pounds) of ground meat mix in 160 grams (5.7 ounces) of regular salt and whatever spices you have to work with. Make sure the salt is evenly distributed or you could have a problem. So mix it well. Stuff meat in casings--no air pockets. Tie the ends and hang in a dry place at room temperature for one week.

I'm not certain how long this sausage will hold up. Perhaps you can teach the villagers how to make this sausage and then have them cook it on the 8th day. (Solar oven?)

<blockquote id="quote">quote:<hr height="1" noshade id="quote">First test delivery is 60 Kilograms on Feb. 3, 2005 and I don't want the kids to get sick a week later from eating the sausage.
<hr height="1" noshade id="quote"></blockquote id="quote"> This Feb 03.05 is a few months back. Your statement is dated which almost gave me cause not to reply to your request for information.

If you next request is for donations I suggest you contact the United Nations World Food Program. You may Contact Them HERE.

Good Luck and Good Day to you!

Olds

Bad Flynch · June 26, 2005, 05:55:42 PM

I have no knowledge in a specialty area like this, but one thing did occur to me: your problem will not be with the meat, but with the fat turning rancid in the heat. Perhaps a low fat content would be in order--that is one of the (aforementioned) secrets for jerky. Otherwise salt, smoke, and dehydration are the answers. Smoke to keep the insects away, salt and dehydration to preserve the meat content.

B.F.

jaeger · June 27, 2005, 04:19:38 AM

Welcome to the forum allthai!

I think your idea is fantastic! I don't know if you can accomplish your goals as stated though.[:(] In the U.S., I would contact a local health department to see if this is a feasible goal. Along with you, I wouldn't want to be responsible for any illness.

Good luck and let us know how it works out!

Doug

owrstrich · June 27, 2005, 05:22:59 AM

daniel boone lived on salt cured jerky...

im sure all of thailand can too...

more later...

owrstrich

jaeger · June 27, 2005, 06:43:19 AM

owrstrich,
This is a person looking for advice on feeding a large number of young children. I'm not trying to start an arguement. I am giving sound advice regarding safe food handling.

Smoked sausage should be refrigerated from the time it is processed until consumed.

Jerky should be refrigerated also.

I guarantee you, if you put 500 kilos of sauage or jerky in 120 F degree temp for 10 days and then feed it to a bunch of kids, somebodies gonna get sick!!!

ya gots to eat, but ya don'ts want to send 1000's of kids to the doctor that they don'ts have........[:D][;)][:D]

peace out owrstrich!!!

Doug

JJC · June 27, 2005, 11:27:24 AM

Welcome to the Forum, Allthai! Is your work with the Thai children part of a non-profit effort? If so, you are truly doing wonderful work over there, and if there's anything we can do to help, please let us know.

I hope Manx will read this post soon and chime in. I know a bit about food safety, as does Habanero and a few others, but Manx is our real expert (see his pieces on Food Safety in the Olds Recipe site stickied at the top of this Forum).

The advice from others seems sound (pending Manx' approval), but if you're doing this as a non-profit or charitable organization, please send us some more information on your group (website, pdf of a pamphlet, etc). I'm wondering if we could help you address the lack of nitrate/nitrite based cures in Thailand. You might need to switch meats or preparations (eg, ham, pork bellies, etc., but not necessarily--others on the Forum would know more about this than I). A little nitrate goes a long way! Is it possible to ship you a package over there?

If so, I'd be happy to organize a collection among the Forum members to buy enough nitrate-based cures to keep you going for quite a while.
I'll match the first $50 of money that's promised, and I'm hoping we can collect quite a bit more than that, even if folks are willing to send me even a $5 check to show their support. I'll be happy to take care of buying the product and have it shipped to you.

Let us know ASAP about the possibility of shipping--it won't help you with your first batch, but may be useful the the next ones.

This is getting a bit ahead of the game, since Allthai may not be able to receive packages for some reason, but if we do go ahead with this, all I need is a private e-mail telling me how much you plan to donate. Once I actually buy and send the stuff, you all can just send me a check when it's convenient.

BTW, if I can't get good bulk prices on pre-mixed cures, sodium nitrate and sodium nitrite are dirt-cheap from chemical supply houses when purchased by the pound. They both run about $5-10 per lb. depending upon how much I buy. I think you can see that a little money will go a long way!

P.S. to all Forum members--do I have to worry about shipping nitrates overseas?

John
Newton MA

Habanero Smoker · June 27, 2005, 05:53:44 PM

At this time, I don't have any advice, but I want to applaud the work that you are doing, and plan to accomplish.

There's got to be away, humans have been preserving meat many years before the invention of refrigeration. You may not be able to do sausage, but I am sure you will be able to preserve meat in a variety of forms.

Phone Guy · June 27, 2005, 08:21:34 PM

The word Botulism comes from the latin word for Sausage. (I heard that on Millionaire)If you do not have nitrates then you should dry the meat. JMHO

allthai · June 28, 2005, 12:38:26 AM

I want to thank everyone for their reply.

We are working with a project here in Thailand called Manna Foundation and the leaders are Frits and Gerda De Quilettes. I am meeting with them this morning (June 26).

After doing lots of research I plan to use only lean pork tenderloin with no fat. I will also add some soya bean, salt and spices as recommended by Olds. Super lean pork is fairly cheap here. The pork casings are available in the supermarkets but I need to clean them as I have done in the past.

The sausage will be smoked then sealed in air tight plastic bags.

They have ice chests in the villages but the ice lasts only a day or two. We plan to freeze the sausage and take it to the villages every week with the ice supply.

I am now looking at Solar refrigerators which will take care of the storage problem. I just don't know if it will be cost effective which I am checking on now as we will need several.

There are two standard solar home systems that are capable of running refrigerator. One is 400 Wp system capable of running 20 liter refrigerator and other one is 2000 Wp system which is capable of running heavy refrigerator.

I don't know if you will be able to send chemicals via mail. I can't even get Morton curing salt here so I will use Sea salt.

Please keep you ideas coming.

Kind regards,
Randy & Ning Gaudet

I love making my own sausage here in Thailand because the store bought products are nothinh but hot dogs.

allthai · June 28, 2005, 12:39:10 AM

I want to thank everyone for their reply.

We are working with a project here in Thailand called Manna Foundation and the leaders are Frits and Gerda De Quilettes. I am meeting with them this morning (June 26).

After doing lots of research I plan to use only lean pork tenderloin with no fat. I will also add some soya bean, salt and spices as recommended by Olds. Super lean pork is fairly cheap here. The pork casings are available in the supermarkets but I need to clean them as I have done in the past.

The sausage will be smoked then sealed in air tight plastic bags.

They have ice chests in the villages but the ice lasts only a day or two. We plan to freeze the sausage and take it to the villages every week with the ice supply.

I am now looking at Solar refrigerators which will take care of the storage problem. I just don't know if it will be cost effective which I am checking on now as we will need several.

There are two standard solar home systems that are capable of running refrigerator. One is 400 Wp system capable of running 20 liter refrigerator and other one is 2000 Wp system which is capable of running heavy refrigerator.

I don't know if you will be able to send chemicals via mail. I can't even get Morton curing salt here so I will use Sea salt.

Please keep you ideas coming.

Kind regards,
Randy & Ning Gaudet

I love making my own sausage here in Thailand because the store bought products are nothinh but hot dogs.

owrstrich · June 28, 2005, 12:53:47 AM

jaeger...

daniel boone was a jerky eating man...
yes... a jerky eating big man...
with an eye like an eagle and as tall as a mountain was he...

daniel boone was a jerky eating man...
yes... a jerky eating big man...
he was brave he was fearless and as tough as a mighty oak tree...

from the coonskin cap on the top of ol jerky eating dan
to the heel of his rawhide shoe...
the rippin'est... roarin'est... fightin'est... jerky eatin'est man the frontier ever knew...

daniel boone was a jerky eating man...
yes... a jerky eating big man...
and he fought for america to make all americans free...

what a boone... what a doer...
what a jerky eating dream come-er-true-er was he...

daniel boone was a jerky eating man...
yes... a jerky eating big man...
with a whoop and a holler his jerky breath couuld mow down a forest of trees...

daniel boone was a jerky eating man...
yes... a jerky eating big man...
if he frowned at a river in july all the water would freeze...

but a peaceable... jerky eating pioneer fella was dan...
when he smiled all the ice would thaw...
the singin'est... laughin'est... happiest... jerky eatin'est man
the frontier ever saw...

daniel boone was a jerky eating man...
yes... a jerky eating big man...
wth a dream of a country that'd always be jerky eatin and always forever be free...

what a boone... what a doer...
what a jerky eating dream come-er-true-er was he...

[:p]

more later...

owrstrich

allthai · June 28, 2005, 01:00:11 AM

I would like to thank everyone for their replies.

My wife and I are helping with the Manna Foundation here in Thailand. The leaders are Frits and Gerda de Quilettes who were born in the Philippines but lived most of their lives in the USA. It was their idea to make sausage so we can add the spices they like to the meat. I have made delicious sausage many times but not without cold storage. We are having a meeting with them this morning June 28, 2005.

From doing more research I plan to use only lean Pork Tenderloin (fat free). I will add sea salt, spices as Olds suggested along with the soy bean. I can get real pork casings here so no worries about that. The sausage will then be cooled after smoking then put in air tight plastic bags and put into a freezer.

The villages have ice chests but the ice melts after a couple of day and won't be supplied again for a week The sausages will be brought along with the ice weekly.

I have also been looking into solar refrigerators as none of the villages have electricity.

There are two standard solar home systems that are capable of running a refrigerator. One is 400 Wp system and capable of running 20 a liter refrigerator and other one is 2000 Wp system which is capable of running heavy a refrigerator.

That would take care of the storage problem. The main problem is we help several villages so we would need to purchase several so we are now looking at the cost.

Something needs to be done as the meat and chicken we supply now except canned sardines won't last two days in the village. Live chickens are gone in no time.

I don't think chemicals will get here through the mail. I can't even get Morton's curing salt.

Keep the ideas coming.

Kind regards,
Randy and Ning Gaudet

I love making my own sausage here in Thailand because the store bought products are nothinh but hot dogs.

jaeger · June 28, 2005, 04:41:13 AM

owrstrich,

That was to cool!!!

If you wrote that all in one day, I think you may have missed your calling. You should be writing songs or books or something!!!

[8D][:D][8D]

Doug