Norbert's Jazzed Upped Smoker

[nsxbill]

Tom G

I really wish tyour controller had been available when I was contemplating the "souping-up" of my Rancilio Silvia espresso machine.  The PID I have is one that Auto Tunes to the application.  The different outputs were not available.  Mine is an Omega.  It is like the Love control and here is a picture of the one I bought.



I never installed it.  I picked up a Commercial Espresso machine and decided to sell off the Silvia, and thought it best to keep it stock.  I am glad I didn't modify it.  If I decide to retire soon, I am going to pick up a used Prevost Bus/RV conversion, and the heck with just coffee on the road.  I will just install the espresso machine and the Rocky Grinder somewhere in the galley of the bus.

Quite the coffee snob, I roast my own beans, and just cannot stand restaurant coffee, nor the crap they sell at Starbucks which is alledgedly "fresh."  Boiler control for the perfect shot of espresso is crucial, and the PID was the solution so many have used to make their espresso machine sing!

The new machine I bought can pull 40-50 drinks an hour were I ever to need to do that, and the boiler is not a problem.

Check out my set-up:


For those who want to infinitely control the temp of their Bradley, and don't want to constantly be outside sliding the switch, this is a good solution.  

I have the Procom4 and Raptor setup, and love it.  I love it because I can tweak the cabinet temp from wherever I want in the house or on the property.  If I am lounging in the pool, my controller is in a waterproof bag, and I always know what the temp of the cabinet(s) is/are, and can up the heat remotely, or just let it run and control temp until the meat reaches the desired temp.

With the new electronics, I am sure someone will come up with something that works.  I don't think it will better than the Procom4 setup, but I am sure it will be a lot cheaper.

I have no regrets about forsaking the constant sliding of the switch an opting for the capability of remote monitoring and control.  I wish it would have been cheaper, but what the hell, buying toys like this is a benefit for still working even though I have retired twice.

I do love the toys!

Bill

<i>There is room on earth for all God's creatures....on my plate next to the mashed potatoes.</i>

[Oldman]

Tom G,
Sorry about my mistake in pricing.

Now the unit you listed bearings are sleeve. That page does not tell me the how long the shaft is.

When I did the first prototype the shaft was 1 9/16". The amount of heat being passed to the motor via the fan blade and shift over heated the motor. I had to add a second fan blade on the outside of the box on the shaft. This acted as a heat sink. I also added a heat sink to the back bearings.  The shaft at only 1 9/16" is very tight to get all of this done. A real pain in the ares...

IMO the sleeve bearings will not hold up to the heat over a period of time.  This is the motor I settled on for my own unit. Cframe motor I have tested this one for hours on end at 240-270 F and it has never offered to shut itself down from high heat.

I took it and ran it with both fans on the shaft for 2 hours with the heat off. Measured the temperature of the housing on the bearings.  Then I  fired  up the box for a couple of hours. Now I don't remember the temperatures, but with the extra heat sinks I do remember the bearing casing did not get any hotter when it was running in a hot box verses when the heat was off. However, I believe without the second fan on the outside of the box, and the back heat sink the motor will over heat.

When I add a controller to the box, I'm going to have to remove the fan. When I do I'm going to make an adjustment in the size of the inside hole.  Those walls are so thin I cannot see in my mind's eye any way of mounting bears for the shaft. I'm going to make the inside hole a little larger than it currently is.

Those two walls are so then if you are not careful with your design for a mounting bracket you will have flexing problems.

I don't know how far Chez is on the production model. I told him I would come up with a blade cover, but I have not really had the time as of late.

The main reason I looked at this motor is its shaft is 2". Believe me you are going to need it too~!

Also be forwarned the high temp wires go about midway up the back of that box.

Olds

[zipclean]

NORBERT, what kind of extra heat set up did you use for your smoker,and where did you put it?I live in Saskatchewan and can always use extra heat this time of year.Just ordered a TS thermostat to replace the slider but would like to add an extra elemenet

[TomG]

Hey Olds, I think my wife is right when she says I have way too much free time on my hands.  She insists that the BS Forum has pushed me over the sanity edge and that my money would be much better spent on psychotherapy.  Here is what you, Soupnazi, Norbert, Bill, car54 and others have caused me to do in the past 2 weeks.  Purchase, but not yet install Soupnazi's PAK P64A temp controller, purchase car54's PID controller(for which I now have to find a 10+ amp relay), ordered Bill's Salamander 1000 watt, ceramic infrared heat emitter, and finally this weekend I picked up, at a garage sale, a four channel dig. Temp. monitor with four probes so I can simultaneously record temps in four different areas of the BS oven.  I've got a suspicion that Norbert's setup, replacing the BS slide with the Love TS switch and exchanging the stock heating element with a higher wattage ceramic heater may be the least expensive and cleanest looking upgrade.  My "experiment" with simultaneous temp readings should quantitate  intra oven temp differences and the need to move racks or increase circulation. After reading this over my shoulder, my better half now wants to know what I've been using as a source in the smoke generator and maybe I shouldn't stand so close to the vent when smoke is pouring out of it.  Women just don't get it!

LOL-Tom-

[Norbert]

Hi Oldman!

Why don't you use a fan from a convection oven?  It's made for that purpose and it can withstand the heat.  

http://www.fluent.com/solutions/examples/x102.htm

You could go to sears and look at a floor model with the convection option then with the model number you could order the fan.

Good lock!

Norbert

[Norbert]

Hi Zipclean

You really need and extra element, go for it.  You won't believe it.  This smoker does magic with a little more heat.  If you look at the photos that Oldman post for me, ''by the way I never thanked him.  Sorry!   Thanks Oldman!'' you can see that I installed the 750Watts bread maker element on the right side just below the drip tray.  You could use any smaller element.  It will be more accurate because the controller will go on and off more often.  I think this is the only spot available.  On the other side you have the brisket burner and you can't go higher then the drip tray.  I don't know where TomG will install is ceramic heater.  O by the way TomG you should always use a SCR witch is a solid state relay.  A relay will go on and off many times over a 12 hrs period and the contact on it will burn easily.  A SCR is also much easier to connect.     Four screws two for the switch and two for the power. http://www.power-io.com/products/hda.htm.

Zipclean, you should use a dremel with metal cuter disc to fit the TS in.  It was very accurate and did a good job.  Don't forget to replace the power cord.  Use 14/3.  All the wiring inside the BS is very good but the 18/3 power cord is not even the right size for a 500Watts element plus a 300W burner, we dont even use that size for a lamp.  

Norbert    


       

[Oldman]

First let me say I've enjoyed this thread.

TomG,
I know just what you are talking about. Especially when it come to my gaming rig. I'm a 55 year old gaming kid. I'm looking at a $700.00 Video card for a game that is still 5-6 months out before it is released. Oh well, how does that saying go??? The difference between a boy and a man is measured only by the price of their toys. [:D]

Norbert,

I looked at several convection ovens and I did not find one that would not cost me one rack due to size. Next I did not find one that would not cause a problem with smoke coming back out of the generator--too many cfm.

My fan blade is 2" and it is between the top of the V pan and below the bottom of the lowest rack.


 <blockquote id="quote"><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial, Helvetica" id="quote">quote:<hr height="1" noshade id="quote">I changed my mind on the fan. I will not install one, it's not required with the added element the heat is well distributed in the smoker. I don't even have to rotate the racks for even cooking.
<hr height="1" noshade id="quote"></blockquote id="quote"></font id="quote">
At 35 cfm I found only a 2 degree difference between the top of the V pan and the very top of the box. Before that there was much difference. Now this might not be important if you doing a pulled pork, but it is very important if you doing a refined sausage.

Perhaps you might check your box empty with a probe. I think you are going to find it hotter at the bottom of the box than at the top. If you do check it I suggest dropping the probe through the vent and when I tested mine I had the vent opened just enough to keep the smoke from coming back out the generator.

In this picture you can see that the smoke is being pulled gently back into the box. (35 cfm) This picture was taken after the door had been opened for a good minute or so.


Now I have a question for you. Which of the Solid State relays did you use. Is it the HAA-3V25?

BTW You are welcome about the pictures and any time you need something posted/ hosted let me know.



Olds

[Norbert]

Hi!

Oldman! I'm also going to buy the ASUS EN7800GTX PCI-E 256MB.  It's the fastest card on the market. But to make a real difference from what I have now I will first replace my CPU for an AMD Athlon 64 X2 S939 3800+ (400) 1MB.  Can't wait to try it with HL2

The SCR Relay that I'm recommending is the HAA-3V25 up to 25A, 24-330V max, 100-280 VAC activated.  These relay are versatile and they can be use anywhere.  It's a good idea to use one with a costly controller.  

I'm still not going to install a fan.  I'm mainly using my smoker for Pull pork, brisket, ribs, chicken and venison, but I agree with you Oldman, if you are doing cold smoke salmon or refined sausage, you need the fan.  

Norbert

[Oldman]

Norbert,

I have not hit the wall yet with my AMD XP3200. Then again I don't game HL2. I'm a Ghost Recon fan... However, if GR3 does not come out for the PC platform I'm going to look for another 1st person shooter.

Did you see this movie of GR3 yet? Take about graphics~~! Look at the face in the last sceen.

http://www.susanminor.org/Rayeimages/GR3_E3_trailer.wmv

The sad part is it has been push back to Feb 06. There are two types of game play I do the most. Pistols only, and as a sniper.

I just recently joined a sniper clan and man are those boys goood....

This is my gaming sig pic:


You ever want a change then come on over...these boys will bleed ya all over those maps~~! LOL!!!! Each game is 15 minutes long, but you only get 2 respawns...so it get tough just making it through the whole game alive.

Olds

[TomG]

Finally got my Kenco temp. controller plug and play.  If I were to go this route again I'd get their prewired version for $50 more.  Setup per Oldman's suggestion, with the box hooked up to power and BS heater feed, RTD  probe down the vent and BS temp slide to max, the control worked beautifully, holding temps(monitored with a calibrated dig. thermometer) at 85, 140, and 225 degrees for at least 3hours each with an accuracy of +-2 degrees and ambient 55-70.


Harness assembled with AC cord and terminal strip

Controller mounted on 1/4" ABS plastic sheet and wired.

The "box" ready to P&P

[Oldman]

I almost went that route TomG. Now don't laugh but I liked Norbert's set up so much I have order that controller--laughing at my self... [:0]

Olds

[TomG]

Aaaaaaaaghhhhh!!!!!!!!!!!!!!![xx(]

[rgardjr]

Well I haven't been around the forums here for a while, but I'm glad I came back because I really want to upgrade to use this PID.  I've read this thread and I just want to make sure I understand what I'd be getting myself into.  Looking for some confirmation that the PID I'd want is the TS-13010 based on this:

Then I'd need to install a heating element (I've got an old bread machine collecting dust with a 750 Watt element.  The original heating element in the Bradley is completely bypassed once I install this-correct?  Also there was some talk in this thread about the use of a relay or SRC-educate me on AC relays.  I've got plenty of experience on the DC side with automotive Bosch style relays, but I've never used an AC relay before.  Also upgrade the power cords to the 14 gauge variety.  Any help you can offer is greatly appreciated!
Thanks-
Rick

[TomG]

Hi Rick, I'm a little confused about the TS switch myself.  From what I understand it is not a PID(Proportional-Integral-Derivative) controller, it's a digital switch with an internal SPST relay which I don't think is solid state and may be why Norbert recommends a SRC. It seems to me if one has to buy a SSR(solid state relay), you might be better off with one of Coldfusionx's eBay real PIDs for $35-45 which includes a K type thermocouple.  Pulling the BS heater and replacing it with a Salamander 700 W ceramic still seems like a pretty hot setup.   It's a little late but next time I'll try to look before I leap.

[rgardjr]

TomG I'm still trying to figure out this relay situation.  Wouldn't the solid state relay have to be triggered by the mechanical relay in the switch?  I guess I'm a little confused about what the benefit is.  Is it because you wouldn't be running the power to the element from the relay in the TS swtich?  I mean the relay in the TS switch would still be opening and closing (wearing itself out)-correct?  Any kind of wiring diagram or schematic might help me understand this a little more.
Thanks-
Rick