Thanks guys for all the tips, i cooked my 4.5 pound butt today turned out amazing soo moist and juicy, i used the texas crutch and it was amazing, used 3 hrs special blend the foiled at 165 and continued cooking to 195 the FTC for 2 hrs, it took about 9 hrs total, it came apart like butter i used a dinosaur red rub from dinosaur BBQ in the states that i made up and some 10.5 sop n' sauce, i couldnt have asked for a better first pork butt, thanks again guys for the tips pics soon