Snack stick moisture?

[Chewbacca]

I have made several batches of venison sticks over the past month and a half. I also purchased an Auber PID after doing my first couple of batches because they weren't as good as I had hoped. Really happy with that purchase so far, however, the one thing I keep having issues with is the sticks are too dry (for my liking) when they finally reach the final temp (152). I have been using the common 10 degree ramp up method  with the final cooking temp being 170 until the sticks hit 152. What can I do to keep the moisture content up in the sticks? When I am finished my sticks keep looking very shriveled and are snappy but I would like them to be a little more tender. I have been using 80% venison to 20% pork butt and I use 1/2 cup of water for each 5 lbs of meat. Do I need more water? Do I need to speed up the smoking procedure so I don't overdry them in the Bradley? Scratching my head :-\

[Sailor]

Try adding 1 oz of Non Fat Dry Milk to your mix and see if that helps.  If that helps but you still want more moisture up it to 2 oz.  I like the texture that 1 oz gives me using 80/20 ground beef. 

Are you resting them in the fridge after the smoke?  If so how long are you keeping them there?  The fridge will suck moisture out of them.  I normally will fridge overnight and vac seal the next morning.  Keep at it and you will hit the formulation that you like.  Make sure you document what you are doing so you can do it over and over when you hit the home run.

[tskeeter]

Chewbacca, I'm not a sticks guy, so others will be better sources of information, but I'm wondering about your meat ratios.  Sausage usually has a fat content in the 20% - 30% range, give or take.  I believe that pork butt will give you something in the 20% - 25% range.  So, if you assume that your venison is virtually fat free, using 20% pork butt would give you a fat content of somewhere around 5%.  In reality, I'm sure your fat content is higher that 5%, but even if you assume 5% fat in your venison, you're at about 10% fat.  That sounds low.  Even for a low fat type of sausage.

Sailor's recommendation to use some non fat dry milk will help hold some moisture.  But bear in mind that Sailor is using ground beef that has a 20% fat content.

Checking other sticks recipes, most of them seem to target a fat content of around 15%.

So, given my limited knowledge of snack stick making, my suggestion would be to increase the proportion of your meat that is pork butt to closer to 50%, or add fat from another source to your meat mix.  And a little NFDM probably wouldn't hurt, either.

[ragweed]

I think these guys are right.  The recipe I use (by SAM3) calls for 5 lbs 85/15 GB, 1 cup NFDM and 1 cup water, plus the other spices.  IMO, they turn out just right, not too dry.

[Sailor]

I have made several batches of venison sticks over the past month and a half. I also purchased an Auber PID after doing my first couple of batches because they weren't as good as I had hoped. Really happy with that purchase so far, however, the one thing I keep having issues with is the sticks are too dry (for my liking) when they finally reach the final temp (152). I have been using the common 10 degree ramp up method  with the final cooking temp being 170 until the sticks hit 152. What can I do to keep the moisture content up in the sticks? When I am finished my sticks keep looking very shriveled and are snappy but I would like them to be a little more tender. I have been using 80% venison to 20% pork butt and I use 1/2 cup of water for each 5 lbs of meat. Do I need more water? Do I need to speed up the smoking procedure so I don't overdry them in the Bradley? Scratching my head :-\

Chewbacca, Normally you need to cut the venison to at least a 70/30 ratio 70 being venison and 30 being pork.  Some guys even go 50/50.  You need about 20% fat in the sticks give or take to your liking.

[Chewbacca]

Try adding 1 oz of Non Fat Dry Milk to your mix and see if that helps.  If that helps but you still want more moisture up it to 2 oz.  I like the texture that 1 oz gives me using 80/20 ground beef. 

Are you resting them in the fridge after the smoke?  If so how long are you keeping them there?  The fridge will suck moisture out of them.  I normally will fridge overnight and vac seal the next morning.  Keep at it and you will hit the formulation that you like.  Make sure you document what you are doing so you can do it over and over when you hit the home run.

Sailor, I've been using soy protein concentrate (spc). Doesn't SPC do the same thing as NFDM? I've recently learned that my local deer processor, whom I'm working hard to try and duplicate, uses 20% pork trim (would that be pork butt or straight fat?) and he also uses corn syrup solids in his formulation. I've researched corn syrup solids and it seems to do the same function as SPC and NFDM but maybe I'm wrong about what each of these three items do.

Also, after I complete my smoke I have a rod in my house that I hang the sticks from to allow them to bloom. Once they get down to room temp I bag and vac seal.

[Chewbacca]

I have made several batches of venison sticks over the past month and a half. I also purchased an Auber PID after doing my first couple of batches because they weren't as good as I had hoped. Really happy with that purchase so far, however, the one thing I keep having issues with is the sticks are too dry (for my liking) when they finally reach the final temp (152). I have been using the common 10 degree ramp up method  with the final cooking temp being 170 until the sticks hit 152. What can I do to keep the moisture content up in the sticks? When I am finished my sticks keep looking very shriveled and are snappy but I would like them to be a little more tender. I have been using 80% venison to 20% pork butt and I use 1/2 cup of water for each 5 lbs of meat. Do I need more water? Do I need to speed up the smoking procedure so I don't overdry them in the Bradley? Scratching my head :-\

Chewbacca, Normally you need to cut the venison to at least a 70/30 ratio 70 being venison and 30 being pork.  Some guys even go 50/50.  You need about 20% fat in the sticks give or take to your liking.

For what it's worth, when I first started making sticks a few years back I was using 80% venison with 20% pork fat. The problem I kept having with this mix is the sticks would "fat out" every time I smoked them. When I went to the leaner version I never had an issue with fat out. However, that was before I owned a PID and the Digital Bradley I learned was fluctuating way too much in temperature. Maybe I need to go back to using the straight pork fat instead of butt and try it with my new PID and see what happens?

Ironically I've also been making venison summer sausage with the same 80% venison to 20% pork butt and they are turning out great! I find it a little odd that the mix works great for the chubs but not the sticks.

When other thing I forgot to mention...I also put a small computer fan in my chamber to help equalize the heat within the smoker. It just so happens that the fan is the perfect size to lay it in the middle of the v-tray and the louvers on the v-tray lock it into place. With this set up, the fan blows directly straight up onto the sticks. Do you think the fan may be the culprit to drying out the sticks?

I appreciate all the help and support you guys offer on this site. Someday I hope to be the teacher and not the student :P

[NePaSmoKer]

Some info

Most Additives used in sausage & jerky making are not spices and do not do necessarily "Season The Meat". They usually perform a function such as retaining color or moisture. They can also protect meat from bacteria while smoking or drying. However, some additives such as cures do affect taste and color to a degree. Always follow the directions provided and do not add more than directed.
Additives are also used to improve food by:

1. Improving the keeping quality of a food by making it last longer on the shelf or in the fridge - Cures are used, for example, prevent the growth of bacteria. Binders are used to stop food from drying out.

2. Improving to the taste and the appearance of foods by using enhancing flavors and colors.

3. Another benefit of food additives is that consumers can be offered a wider choice of foods. Many processed foods contain additives.

Some common examples are bacon, margarine, ice cream and bread.

Some people believe that because food additives are chemicals they should be banned. However, everything in the world,
Including the food we eat and our bodies is made of chemicals. Air, water, glucose and salt are chemicals in the same
way that food additives are. Many food additives occur naturally, such as red color from beetroot (Beet red), and purple
color from grape skins (anthocyanins). These colors can be extracted and added to foods. Some food additives found in
nature can be manufactured, for example, ascorbic acid. Other additives are manufactured but not found in nature, such
as aspartame, which is used to replace sugar.

BINDERS - Also known as Soy, Soy Protein Concentrate, Soy Flour, Soy Grits, Soy Protein Isolate - All soy products have a high protein value. This gives soy its binding capability, allowing you to add water (called added water) to your sausage for a moister product. These ingredients are used to prevent weight loss and shrinkage to products being processed in the smokehouse, by helping to retain the natural juices (called bound moisture) in the meat. This product also helps to bind the sausage together and can be used in meat products such as burgers to retain the natural juices from cooking out. Although not generally used in fresh sausages it may be added with good results. You should use the following ratios:

Smoked products Use binder up to 5% of the meat weight.

Fresh products Use binder up to 3% of the meat weight.

Sausage binder weighs out at about 4 oz. per cup so 4 cups would equal about one lb.

Soy grits are used in patties and products like Hamburger Helper.

Soy protein concentrate is made from the refining process of soy beans
These binders are ineffective for the most part of holding water and the natural juices, which are in the meat (called bound moister) at temperatures in excess of 165°F.

NON-FAT DRY MILK - Milk powder has been used for years in sausage making. Acts as a binder by helping to retain the moisture of the meat. Although not highly effective as a binder, it can impart a creamier taste to some sausage products. You can use up to 12% (of the meat weight) without affecting the taste of the sausage. This product is good at hiding salt flavor in most sausage and is used in liver sausage, hot dogs and bologna.

FERMENTO - Use to produce a tangy taste in sausage such as summer, pepperoni and thuringer. The recommended level to start with is 3%, add up to 6% to produce a more tangy taste, but do not exceed 6% or the sausage will become mushy. This product does not require refrigeration.

WATER - Water is used in sausage making to add moisture to the meat, to add lubrication to the stuffing process and to help distribute the seasonings through out the meat. This water, called added water, will cook out of the meat before the natural moisture, called bound water, cooks out of the meat. Thus, you have a moister product when cooked. Water is also added to lubricate the meat making it easier to stuff into casing. Adding water to the seasoning and ingredients helps carry them into the meat and distributes them evenly during the mixing stage. You can add water up to 10% of the meat weight. Always use ice-cold water.
Water is also used to shower the finished product after smoking. This stops the cooking process and prevents swiveling.
Some water supplies have high lime contents that leave white powder spots on sausage after showering. Check for hard water.

[Chewbacca]

Thanks for the info there Nepas...I knew you'd be chiming in ;D Which binder do you prefer to use?

[Tenpoint5]

Your looking for a softer mouth feel when biting into your snack sticks. If I am reading this right. The moisture levels in the meat itself are fine, just looking to make the casings softer. If so, I will suggest that after your blooming period. Cut your sticks to the length that you desire. Place the sticks in a plastic bag, then zip it to within 1 inch of completely closed. Place the bag in the fridge overnight. The residual heat in the sticks even at room temp will create steam/moisture on the bag. By morning the casings on the sticks will have softened up to the mouth feel that your looking for.

[bundy]

I mix all my Venison with 50% Pork Butt and use NFDM plenty moist.