E-mail to Bradley Technologies

[renoman]

2.   with a PID, you now have an extra box with extra wires that you have to deal with.

Not necessarily. Here's my "cheap" $45 Auber PID mounted in my SG box:

TedEbear, I love your PID. I should have gone that route but I just received my plug and play a few days ago. I agree with dcw1 that the mess of wires is an inconvenience especially if you are exposed to the elements.

[dcw1]

In the picture, what is the actual PID?

[GusRobin]

See the details in this thread
http://forum.bradleysmoker.com/index.php?topic=22065.0

[devo]

This is what one looks like before getting installed in the smoke generator.


As far as your statement about how it might change my way of smoking and I would sell my pid on creigs list, not going to happen. The bradley controller will never give me the tight temp control (even if it can handle the modded element that my PID gives me. I do a lot of sausage and I need that tight control.

[dcw1]

Ok, Very nice--I will say the picture is aesthetically pleasing for that model.  However, the face of the Bradley model in the picture does not look anything like my model.  Mine is a BTDS76P and I don't see how that PID could attach to the face without messing up the digital display that is there.

I hope to hear today from some more electricians about the use of the 900-watt element with the original controls.  The 8.4 amps that the 900-watt element may draw --is that getting to close to the 10 amp fuse rating for comfort or is that a big enough cushion?  And two 500-watt elements would make that cushion even smaller.

Is there a middle ground?  The 900-watt element gives you 80% more heat.  Is there a 750-watt element---that would give you 50% more heat and then just leave the controls as is?  I am not cooking in the Great White North (previously livid in Ottawa for 4 years—awesome city!) so frigid outdoor temperatures are not an issue right now.  In fact, since getting this tin can, I just cook in my garage and I just open the garage door when firing up the smoke feature.

I am not concerned about tight temperature control.  I want this thing to reach 320 (maximum setting on original controls) in 20 minutes as opposed to taking an hour to reach 280 without opening the door once.  I want fast recovery when basting/checking meat and quick pre-heating---that's it.

To be honest, I want to bake a cake in it.  So there you have it.

[dcw1]

Had another person with some electrical know-who share the following:

500 watts/120 volts =  4.1 amps

900 watts/120 volts = 7.5 amps

This does not take into account the puck burner but does conform and echo Beefmann's analysis.

Cake baking here we come!

[TedEbear]

I want this thing to reach 320 (maximum setting on original controls) in 20 minutes as opposed to taking an hour to reach 280 without opening the door once.  I want fast recovery when basting/checking meat and quick pre-heating---that's it.

Seriously?  The high temp sensor would shut off the Bradley before it ever got that high.  I believe the sensor trips at 275*F. 

Also, if you want to know the amps for a specific load here's the formula:

watts = volts x amps
amps = watts / volts
volts = watts / amps

[dcw1]

The digital control maximum setting is 320.  I have run it sans food, door closed, and the temperature reading on the digital display got up to 293.  At that point I just turned it off.  I will do this again with a probe or an oven thermometer because I don't know if it actually got up to 293.  But that is what the "oven temp" on the control panel said.

Regardless of that, it took quite some time to reach 293.  And that was without opening the door once.

The higher element wattage should allow for quicker ramp up time and quicker recovery---and I assume may get it to the max temperature (whatever that is---320 or something lower).  I assume that since the original Bradley controls allow a setting of 320, the high temperature sensor would at least let the unit approach 320.  275 seems really low given the unit itself said the oven temperature was at 293.


When using PID, does the PID have an upper limit control/sensor or do you still just rely on the Bradley's original upper limit sensor?

[Wildcat]

Interesting thread. Kind of like reading a forum dedicated to car racing. Some of you seem to want a high performance grill that can infuse some smoke. Nothing wrong with playing around with it like you guys are doing so long as you keep safety as a priority. I enjoy reading how you guys tinker with these things but everyone should keep in mind that doing so could be dangerous to the everyday John or Jane Doe, and one should not blame the manufacturer for following the safety rules and regulations. You guys should also warn the average non-electrician folks of the potential dangers when you make these kinds of posts.

I personally like the low and slow characteristics of the Bradley. Granted I added a PID so that it will maintain a more constant temperature, especially during the last part of the cook, but in my humble opinion the Bradley produces the best smoked meat right out of the box that I have ever tasted. If you think about it, there must be some reason why smoking competitions do not allow the use of the Bradley.

For the bulk of Bradley users out there - If you do a modification to enhance the cooking temp please be safe. You may want to make sure it is away from the house so that if it catches on fire your house does not go up in smoke with it. Also, some of the posts harp on temperature recovery being an issue. It is true that sometimes it can take a little time to recover if you open the door but I have never had this situation change the overall quality of the finished product, only extend the time it takes to finish the cook. A good remedy for this is don't open the door so much or add something like a couple of bricks to help heat it back up. If you are in a hurry you may want to use a hard wood smoker or simply transfer to your house oven or grill after the smoke period is over.

[Mr Walleye]

dcw1

I was the one who originally did the dual element mod. In doing so I wanted accomplish a few things I felt it had problems with. Namely temperature recovery and tighter temperature tolerances.

First off, I'm not an electrician nor an engineer. The dilemma of what the original controls are capable of handling has always been hard to pin down and short of testing it I don't think you will figure it out. As has been said, usually... the fuse is the weak link. Also having said that, it is my understanding for safety sakes you don't want to exceed 80% of the circuits capacity. Taking this into account you would want to keep your draw at 8 amps or less. You also want to make sure you are taking everything that consumes power into account such as the element, puck burner, puck pusher and any other electronics. Based on this just the 900 watt element and the 125 watt puck burner will be drawing between 8.6 and 9.3 amps which is beginning to crowd the capacity of the fuse and possibly the other electronics and it's certainly encroaching well into the 80% rule.

If you are "not" concerned with the temperature swings that are common with the factory controls a simpler solution is to switch the larger drawing elements using a SSR which is controlled by the existing controls. The trigger voltage of the SSR would have to handle 120v though. This way there would actually be less load on the existing factory controls.

As far as the insulation area directly behind the elements goes I scrapped the foam out of mine and used Mineral wool insulation. Mineral wool is rated around 2000 degrees so there is no problem with it.

There is no question with a 900 or 1000 watts of elements the cabinet will be capable of reaching 320 degrees. Not that I would recommend running it there as in my opinion the cabinet was not really designed for higher temperatures such as this. There is also a thermal fuse in the back of the cabinet that you will have trouble with when you start crowding 300 degrees.

... Not too sure about your "bake" idea!  ;D

... just my 2 cents on the subject,  ;)

Mike

[renoman]

Personally I would not hesitate to put a 750 watt replacement element in my Bradley digital and that may just be the answer to the heat recovery problems. However it will not solve the case of the wild temp swings. I was doing some testing in my shop yesterday with my new PID and put the probes from the PID, the Maverick 732 and my Thermopen all in the same close area in the cabinet. Set the PID for 175 degrees. The three of them stayed within 3 degrees of each other but the readout on the Bradley was all over the map. I would not trust it for a minute. I believe the Thermopen is the most accurate of them all.

[Mr Walleye]

Renoman

Your right. You want to measure the temperature just below the meat so you can tell what the meat is being exposed to. The BDS temp probe is in the back of the cabinet. Sometimes your meat is below it or right near to it and therefore influences it. Also, there can be a lot heat run up the back of the cabinet which can influence it as well. Another thing is by having the temp probe mounted in the back of the cabinet the cabinet itself will influence the readings.

Ultimately, you want to control the temp the meat is being exposed to and the best way to do that is with the temp probe below the meat. Of course not directly below it so it's not dripping on it.

Mike

[NePaSmoKer]

This is a 750w element. Non production Bradley

[renoman]

This is a 750w element. Non production Bradley

NePa, do you run that element without a PID?

[dcw1]

It seems that the scales are tipping to larger elements not necessarily burning out the original controls.  There still is need for some caution but it does not appear that a blanket prohibition is in order.  Especially if you look at a 750-watt element.

Now, the real answer here is for someone to do what has been recommended by many to me---slap her in there and tell us what happens.  But, I am not such a fool that would try that on a brand new X-Mas gift.  I still want my original controls.

So, the real heroes here could be those that have a PID!  You aren't using your original controls!  So you TEST IT with your old controls that are essentially worthless to you anyway.  Who cares if the old controls zap out?  You aren't using them anyway.  So, what's the harm?  I say this with all sincerity and I certainly don't want anything to catch on fire.  I suspect the first thing that would happen is a blown fuse. 

So, be a hero.  If you aren't using the original controls, unhook your PID and re-hook the originals.  And bake a cake!