bacon bellies gone bad?

[rajzer]

Habs, that is an excellent analysis and most probably the correct one.  I totally agree and the bacon was not in the 60F range the whole time, as I don't think it went up immediately after the door was slightly left open.  It probably took several hours as the compressor was still chugging along.

I don't want to be disrespectful to the others who replied as we are all entitled to our opinions, but I think it was knee-jerk reaction to advise the OP to throw the bellies out.  That advice was like telling him not to drive on the freeway because he might get into a serious accident.  I think we sometimes have to think a bit, ask more questions and only then click on the Post button.

[Saber 4]

I am grateful for the high level of knowledge and expertise the members on this forum have shared with me, many times as I was getting started with smoking and especially curing they have saved me from myself, I never got to the point where I was advised to throw something out, however, if I had gotten that advice I know I would have followed it immediately as I have seen first hand how dangerous real food poisoning can be, not the minor stomach cramps and diarrhea from something that didn't agree with you but the serious in the hospital for several days type.

So while I respect all on here and their varied opinions on this and other topics, I would caution against calling differing opinions a knee-jerk reaction, many on here take food safety issues very seriously and while it is expensive and it does suck to throw out a questionable project it is often the safest approach. :)   

[beefmann]

I am grateful for the high level of knowledge and expertise the members on this forum have shared with me, many times as I was getting started with smoking and especially curing they have saved me from myself, I never got to the point where I was advised to throw something out, however, if I had gotten that advice I know I would have followed it immediately as I have seen first hand how dangerous real food poisoning can be, not the minor stomach cramps and diarrhea from something that didn't agree with you but the serious in the hospital for several days type.

So while I respect all on here and their varied opinions on this and other topics, I would caution against calling differing opinions a knee-jerk reaction, many on here take food safety issues very seriously and while it is expensive and it does suck to throw out a questionable project it is often the safest approach. :)

I agree here Saber, i  respect all here and there advice, When it becomes a question if it is  safe or  should be tossed i  lean towards tossing it,  It is not  worth getting  sick, few days off of  work or  even a  trip to the hospital which would cost more then the cost of the  meat and cure, Though if someone from a  company can guarantee that it is still safe then  so be it and proceed with the project.   

[Habanero Smoker]

Thank you for your honesty.  I took the time to check out the advice from the experts on the other website.  3 experts replied.  The first expert said "It hasn't been above freezing very long. I would keep it and finish it".  The facts state that the belly had always been above freezing.  It was cut fresh from the hog one hour before curing and had been in the frig for 5 days so his degree of expertness is suspect at best.  The second expert states that the belly should be fine, explains why he feels so and then sums up with "to pitch these bellies would be plain nuts".  The third expert who is also the moderator of the Forum correctly cautions that sodium nitrite will protect against "pathogenic" type bacteria such as botulism but will not protect against spoilage bacteria.  He goes on to state that while he doubts there is any major damage done to the belly he would like to know all of the facts.  In honesty, 4 hours later he returns and replies that "I'm sure your project will be fine".

Here is the score for the experts, the first expert apparently is not an expert.  The second expert says to keep it and the third expert cautions and is concerned about not knowing all of the facts and later replies with a reassuring statement of encouragement.

Habs, May I ask why you directed the original poster to another Forum rather than accepting the answers given on this Forum?  Seems to me that whether you intended to or not you conveyed the message that the folks on this Forum aren't qualified to answer such questions.  Where was your opinion on his question?

Though I didn't want to convey that members are not qualified to answer such questions; I will often direct a member to other sites, for either clarification and/or to seek a second opinion from a different set of eyes. In this case I felt a second opinion was needed, that more experience people in the area of curing who have probably dealt with most situations that can occur during curing, could better handle.

Again, thank you for your honesty.  At least now I know what you consider my level of expertise to be.

KyNola;

I don't understand why you are thanking me for my honesty. Like I stated, that day I didn't have the time to argue my position. When it come to these matters, though I would not call it "knee jerk", most members of this forum are going to fall back on the danger zone position for every situation, without taking in other considerations.

Though I did not express what I think of your level of knowledge to be, you can think what ever you like. Neither did I express what I thought of other's who express an opinion on this topic, about their expertise. My post had nothing to do with their expertise, but their point of view. They have contributed a wealth of knowledge to this forum, and a difference of opinion is not a judgment or ranking of skills. I will go on to state this, in these matters I have no hesitation seeking a second opinion, and from that forum. 

[HugeStapedius]

This doesnt have to be a bacon measuring contest if you know what i mean.  I agree this forumn has been mpre then helpful .  Its still nice to have other opinions  from so called experts in this hobby.
the bacon turned out fine and both my gf and i ate some of the bacon bits made from the leftovers after slicing.
I should have soaked the bellies longer as the salt content is way to high. Im hoping the slices wont b as salty.
Its always a learning process and this was no exception. I have another belly waiting to start curing this afternoon.
this time its staying cold.  Hope it turns out more like my previous couple batches.
thanx again everybody for the advice and opinions.
Bring on da bacon

[HugeStapedius]

Ps i had food poisoning on a cruise ship when younger so it wasnt something i was not worriwd about.

[rajzer]

Glad to hear the bacon turned out ok. (as I expected).  Next time try using 3% salt (including the Cure 1) and you will have lttle need for soaking.

[HugeStapedius]

This was my first time using sausage maker cure. What do you mean 3%?
What would that measure for a 5lb belly.  i ussualy follow 10.5 recipe or similar and still have to soak for 1 hr. To not have salt overload.

[Habanero Smoker]

With the Sausage Maker cure you would not want to add 3% salt, because the cure mixture already contains all the salt you would need to use. What rajzer is referring to is that the 3% salt would pertain to if you were making your own cure mixture. The amount of salt you would use would be 2% - 3% of the green weight of the meat you are curing. For example, if you have a 5lb. belly (after trimming) that equals 80oz. x .03= 2.4oz of salt.

[HugeStapedius]

Salt as in insta cure salt or kosher salt?.

[Habanero Smoker]

When the 2 - 3% is mentioned it is salt (sodium chloride); not instacure. Though a 3% salt will cure your meat without a instacure, you will not get that characteristic flavor associated with nitrites. Any pure salt can be used by weight, which includes pickling salt/canning salt. Non-iodized table salt can also be used. In that 3% you should also calculate the amount of salt that is in instacure you will be adding; which is .1875oz per teaspoon, but you can round that off to .20oz.

Looking at 10.5 pictorial, the recipe that is posted uses 3% salt. If you already found this recipe too salty, then a 3% salt will be too salty for you. You can try using 2% salt.

[HugeStapedius]

Perfect thanx for clarification

[rajzer]

Thanks Habanero for replying.  I was away from the internet for a few days.  I also forgot that the OP was using a premix cure and seasoning when I posted the 3% suggestion.

[Habanero Smoker]

Thanks Habanero for replying.  I was away from the internet for a few days.  I also forgot that the OP was using a premix cure and seasoning when I posted the 3% suggestion.

I know what you mean. I had to go reread the thread to recall how he originally use to cure with.