New Owner Question

[smok4fun]

Hi.. I have to let you all know that I've been reading this forum for almost a year while I smoked a lot of fish on my Little Chief.  I learned a lot doing that and decided it was time to get a Bradley and join the forum.  So I bit the bullet and bought the Original in Black.  Am very happy with it because it's so easy to operate and doesn't need a lot of nursemaiding.  Really enjoyed the first two smokes.. a pork tenderloin about a week ago and yesterday, a rolled, stuffed turkey breast.  Had 10 people over for dinner yesterday and everyone raved about how great the smoked turkey was.  Both recipes came from the Jamison book "Smoke & Spice".  Many thanks to Bubba for recommending the book and for the quick delivery of his famous "Bubba Pucks".

Here's my question.  "Is it normal for meat to be thoroughly cooked well before it reaches the recommended temperature?"

The Jamison Book recommends cooking the pork tenderloin to 160 F but meat was cooked through when it only measured 146 F.  A similar thing happened on the rolled turkey breast.  The book recommended cooking it until it reached 180 F, but it was cooked through when it reached 161 F.  I don't think it's a problem with the meat thermometer because I used two different digital thermometers.. one for the pork and another for the turkey roll.  Perhaps it's because both pieces of meat were fairly thin.  The pork tenderloin was butterflied and hammered to an even thickness of about 3/4 inch.  The turkey breast was butterflied and hammered to an even thickness of about 1 inch, covered with stuffing and then rolled up to about a 4 in diameter roll.

I'm hoping someone can shed some light on what might be happening here.  Why were these meats thoroughly cooked at such low temperatures?  I'm confused even though the food turned out great!  Thanks.. Larry   

   

[West Coast Kansan]

Not sure i can tell the difference on the pork loins at the 14 degree 146 to 160 difference. Kind of like the difference in the shades of white (unless your a bug).

The turkey breast will be done at 160 IMO. Dont know about the 180 recommendation - the ?whatever stuffing inside may be a part of the reason for the 180 recommendation.

"Cooked through" can mean a lot of different things.  Remembering the poke test, etc.  You should get some interesting responses on your question.

Welcome, your questions and experiences will be valuable to all.

[Smudge]

Welcome Larry,

Target temperatures of certain cuts of meat generate a lot of controversy, as exemplified in your post. Understanding some of the dynamics of the divergent views might help inform us of ideal temps to aim for.

Certainly, one side--the growers--wants us to enjoy moist, succulent meat. Another side wants safety to be paramount.

It's been my experience that the higher temps recommended by the safety-minded side are a bit high. I never aim for 180 in poultry; it always leads to dry breast meat for me.

So, what is an ideal temp? I heard this Thanksgiving that some poultry associations now believe 165 is a safe temperature, having nearly eliminated much of the illness-causing germs from the turkey supply.  

I have not been able to verify this info beyond the short radio blurb of which I alluded to. Plus I hope you can understand the reluctance of mindlessly reducing the target temp in any recipe one posts publicly on such scant information.

All I mean to say is that a thermometer should only be one indicator. I think the fact that you're visually examining the meat is of equal importance.


   

[Oldman]

FOOD POISONING AND FOOD HYGIENE PART 1, From Paul Woods

Food Poisoning and Food Hygiene Part 2

CURING and BRINING, From JJC

Given your questions I strongly suggest you take the time to read these. They are long reads with much information. After that then make your decision as to what level you want your meats cooked.

[Habanero Smoker]

The Jamison Book recommends cooking the pork tenderloin to 160 F but meat was cooked through when it only measured 146 F.  A similar thing happened on the rolled turkey breast.  The book recommended cooking it until it reached 180 F, but it was cooked through when it reached 161 F.  I don't think it's a problem with the meat thermometer because I used two different digital thermometers.. one for the pork and another for the turkey roll.  Perhaps it's because both pieces of meat were fairly thin.  The pork tenderloin was butterflied and hammered to an even thickness of about 3/4 inch.  The turkey breast was butterflied and hammered to an even thickness of about 1 inch, covered with stuffing and then rolled up to about a 4 in diameter roll.

I don't understand your statement on the internal temperatures. Are you stating that you cut into the pork at 146°F and it looked done. For stuffed poultry, you need to bring the stuffing up to 165°F, which often means that the internal meat temperature will be higher, probably around 180°F. I use 165°F for whole poultry; 165°F for dark meat, and 150°F if just doing the breast.

Pork tenderloin that is commercially produced is considered safe and ideal at 145°F-150°F, most cuts of meat with an internal temperature of 160°F or more (excluding poultry), is often considered over cooked. The Federal guidelines for whole poultry had been reduced to 165°F last spring, but not all their web pages have been updated so you will get conflicting information for their websites. I have taken a few food enthusiast classes at the Culinary Institute of America. They place a lot of emphasis on food safety, and are very strict on ensuring the food get to the internal temperatures they go by. The internal meat temperatures the chefs use that train other chefs, is often lower then the federal recommendations.

[manxman]

Given your questions I strongly suggest you take the time to read these. They are long reads with much information. After that then make your decision as to what level you want your meats cooked.

To my mind this is the best advice, once an individual has made themselves aware of all the facts they are then in a position to make an informed choice.

Guidelines differ between different organisations, different countries and can often be updated within an organisation as HS rightly pointed out but at the end of the day guidelines are just that... a guide!

In this day and age most organisations/institutions are intent on covering their backs first and foremost and err on the side of safety sometimes to the extend of being overcautious. However, once such guidelines have been set then others (eg: authors) may well feel duty bound to stick to them.

If they authored a book and published temperatures at odds with published guidelines (eg: FDA) they could be leaving themselves open to action. If some numbskull buys a load of dodgy meat that has fallen off the back of a lorry, leaves it lying in his car for 12 hours then drops it on the floor and the dog then licks it he is asking for everyhting he gets! But if that same numbskull then cooks the meat to the temperature that was quoted in the book and was violently ill, it would be very easy for that same person to go after the author as their published temperatures are not FDA or whatever the appropriate body is, approved.

They place a lot of emphasis on food safety, and are very strict on ensuring the food get to the internal temperatures they go by. The internal meat temperatures the chefs use that train other chefs, is often lower then the federal recommendations

Many people on the forum also appear to cook pork to less than the FDA guidelines, important things is to read around the subject then make an informed choice.

When I wrote the food poisoning articles I quoted the relevant guidelines in operation at time if writing, that is not to say I as an individual stick to them!

It is also worth remembering that is is not just about internal temperatures, whilst that is obviously very important the whole process is important from buying good quality meat in the first place, storage, cleanliness etc.

Follow good practice from the word go and to my mind that gives you a bit of leeway with regards to cooking temperatures but that can only be for each individual to decide. :)

[smok4fun]

Thanks everyone for all your responses to my question.  This is a great forum with great people on it.  All your helpful answers are really appreciated.

It's helpful to know that others don't necessarily cook turkey breast to 180 F and pork tenderloin to 160 F.  I had a digital thermometer stuck into the thickest part of these meats when I was smoking them.  I finally decided the meats were done when I cut into them and they looked thoroughly cooked and all the juices were clear.  I even wished that I had taken them out earlier because they were a little too dry for my liking. 

Just for the record, the turkey roll was injected with a mixture that contained orange juice (vitamin C), rubbed with a paste containing salt and put in the refrigerator overnite.  So, I guess it was mildly cured.  When I stuck the thermometer probe into the turkey roll, I couldn't really tell if the tip of the probe ended up in the meat or the stuffing mix.  The stuffing mix was made up of already cooked rice, onions, garlic and contained no uncooked meat.

It's not as simple as I thought (or hoped it would be) to tell when a piece of meat is cooked just right.  "Just right" meaning it's great to eat (moist and tender), yet safe to eat (no dangerous bacteria).  I can see I've got a lot to learn.  I'm going to read the references recommended by Oldman and think about this some more.  I can see that smoking is maybe more of an art than a science.  I'm looking forward to sharing and learning from all of you on this forum.  Thanks again.. Larry

[manxman]

I can see that smoking is maybe more of an art than a science.

You have hit the nail on the head with this comment..... very true!  ;)