How long is too long when brining?

[TxSmoker]

Hello everyone! I have a couple chickens in brining now(went in about 1:30pm today). I was going to smoke them for supper tonight but things have come up and I need to change plans. My question is...can I leave them in the brine until noonish tomorrow without ruining them? Any suggestions are welcomed! Steve

[NePaSmoKer]

The process of brining is easy but takes some planning. Depending on the size of what you want to brine it can take up to 24 hours of more. If you are going to be brining whole poultry you will also want an additional 6 to 12 hours between the brining and the cooking. If you want your poultry to have a golden, crispy skin, it needs to sit in the refrigerator for several hours after you remove it from the brine so that the meat can absorb the moisture from the skin.


How Long To Flavor Brine:
It is possible to end up with meat that's too salty for your taste. To avoid this, brine on the low end of the time range on your first attempt. You can always brine longer next time, but there's no way to salvage a piece of meat that's been brined too long.


Whole Chicken (4 pounds)
4 to 12 hours

Chicken Pieces
1 to 1 1/2 hours

Whole Turkey
1 to 2 days

Turkey Breast
5 to 8 hours

Cornish Game Hens
1 to 2 hours



nepas

[TxSmoker]

The birds are both about 5 lbs.  If I leave it till noonish tomorrow it would have brined for near 24 hrs. If that is ok, it works for me.
The brine I used was smokehouse rob's:
1 gallon apple juice, chilled
1 cup Diamond Crystal Kosher Salt
(I used 3/4 cup Morton's Kosher instead, as suggested by Rob if not using the Diamond Crystal Salt)
3/4 cup granulated sugar
1/2 cup honey
1/4 cup light brown sugar, packed
Would that be enough salt to make it salty if I leave it till tomorrow morning?
As for the crispy skin I guess I could take it out early tomorrow morn and leave it till after church which is when I will be smoking, that would be 4-5 hrs out of the brine. I wonder if that would be enough for the crispy skin. What about if I took it out tonight and left it in the container(no air flow)till tomorrow?
Thanks for the help PA. Steve

[Habanero Smoker]

I just want to add that brine times also depends on the concentration of salt you have in the brine.

Here is a article a member JJC wrote that could be helpful to you.
http://www.susanminor.org/forums/showthread.php?t=14

If your plans have changed, don't leave the meat in the brine any longer than the suggested brining times. If you can't smoke to much later, them remove from the brine and keep refrigerated. As NePa mentioned, you should leave poultry with skin uncovered in the refrigerator for about 12 hours until the skin feel sticky; this is called the pellicle. This not only makes the poultry skin "crispy'er", but improve smoke penetration.

One other thing I learned along the way. When brining large cuts of meat (not necessary for poultry), always allow it to rest in the refrigerator for at least 24 hours after removing from the brine. The reason for this is that the highest concentration of salt is still in the outer most parts of the meat. Allowing the meat to rest after taking it out of the brine, give the salt time to equally distribute through out the meat.

[TxSmoker]

Well, I ended up taking it out of the brine at the 10 hr mark last night. Left it in the fridge last night and this morning I glazed it with italian dressing both under the skin and on top, finished off with a dusting of a garlic and pepper type rub(Grill Mate Chicken Rub). It's in the BS now with maple, I will post later on how it was. Thanks for the insight PA and Hab! Steve

[TxSmoker]

The chicken was WONDERFUL! Very juicy! Only thing was it did not have enough smoke favor and this seems to be a common problem with poultry for me, I dunno why!? Cook time was about 4 hrs with maple. I brined and I set the bird upright so the smoke could flow though, both were suggestions made to increase the smoke flavor. Ho hum, I guess I will keep trying. Steve

[Habanero Smoker]

Four hours would have been plenty for me. If the poultry has wet skin, smoke will not penetrate as well, and/or adhere to the surface. You should try air drying the birds (under refrigeration) and allow the pellicle to form.

Just a follow up question. What did you use to stand the bird vertical. Was it a wire framed vertical roaster, or did you use a beer can. If you used a beer can, you are plugging the cavity and blocking the flow of smoke. Leaving the bird horizontal with the cavity opened will allow plenty of smoke to enter the cavity

[West Coast Kansan]

TxS, might go light on the dressing until after the smoke.  I have seen creamy and V&O Italian and dont know what you are using.  I mention this because I have had smoke blocked by BBQ sauces in the past.  Not all of them but the thicker and sweeter the greater the block. 

I have gotten in the habit of smoking my chickens - Vent wide open always - and once your done with the smoke and not dropping pucks pull the water bowl out.  8) You just dont need the moisture. 

When the skin starts to crisp, (It in the thigh will be about 145f) paint the bird with your favorite dressing or sauce.  Iceman has a great sauce not thick, but does not run off verticle surfaces even with minimal heat (200F tower temp). If you want a heaver build up of sauce i.e. bump the tower temp to 220 the last hour and paint the bird a second time.  Gives some good finger licken... ;D

As HabS says, gotta start with dry skin.

[TxSmoker]

Just a follow up question. What did you use to stand the bird vertical. Was it a wire framed vertical roaster, or did you use a beer can. If you used a beer can, you are plugging the cavity and blocking the flow of smoke. Leaving the bird horizontal with the cavity opened will allow plenty of smoke to enter the cavity

Hello Hab-I didn't use anything, and that may have been the problem. They may have settled down and closed the hole. I didn't realize there was such a thing as a wire vertical roaster, where can I find one?

Four hours would have been plenty for me. If the poultry has wet skin, smoke will not penetrate as well, and/or adhere to the surface. You should try air drying the birds (under refrigeration) and allow the pellicle to form.

I didn't get your post about the pellicle till this morning and I didn't have time to let them sit more uncovered. As I mentioned in a previous post I did drain the brine but I left them in the container with the lid on, so they didn't dry out properly, I will definately do that next time! The birds were VERY good and tender, just didn't seem to pick up enough smoke, and virtually none when you got past the very outside of the meat. Thanks soooo much for your help with this! Steve

TxS, might go light on the dressing until after the smoke.  I have seen creamy and V&O Italian and dont know what you are using.  I mention this because I have had smoke blocked by BBQ sauces in the past.  Not all of them but the thicker and sweeter the greater the block. 

Hello West Coast- I was using regular oil italian, but now that you mention it, I may try creamy, I LOVE the creamy and I never thought of it! I know what your saying about the BBQ because that may be what happened to one I did last week. I didn't realize that was the problem but now I see it probably was. I just assumed it was because I didn't brine that bird, just marinated it in BBQ for a couple of hours. I picked up virtually NO smoke on that bird.

I have gotten in the habit of smoking my chickens - Vent wide open always - and once your done with the smoke and not dropping pucks pull the water bowl out.  8) You just dont need the moisture. 

Do you have trouble keeping your temp up with the vent wide open? I usually can't get my temp up much over 230 with the vent not even half open. Thanks a bunch for your input!! Steve

[West Coast Kansan]

TxS, The are called crowns as far as I know. Most places with BBQ or Grilling supplies carry them.  Just an upside down funnel made from wire that you set the chicken on... I will try to post a Picture.

No trouble with getting temps to 220 - but was 70+F today in So Ca in cold weather it would be a problem - but rarely use temps (dont think I have) over 220.  Once the Chicken comes up to temperature a bit at what ever temp you can reach the moisture flow will reduce some. You can start to close the vent "some" then.

HabS set me straight on this moisture vs temp thing a few month ago and it helps greatly with the skin - though a finish on the grill or in your oven if it is cold out still gives better skin.

[West Coast Kansan]

Looks like this.  Not sure where crown came from :) Not exactly how I would use a crown if I had one :o but the chicken does not seem to mind  ;D



He goes something like this and looks like this after about an hour or so



More in - who is smoken what this weekend - thread.

wck

[Habanero Smoker]

The one that WCK has pictured is similar to one of the ones I have. Over the years I have accumulated a bunch of them. Some were from mail orders; Internet orders, gifts, and retail stores. Many beer can holders will also work. WalMart sell a wire framed beer can holder that you can set the bird on without using a can.

Doing a search for vertical roasters doesn't help much, but Amazon.com has several styles.
http://www.amazon.com/s/ref=nb_ss_hg/104-1470849-3247946?url=search-alias%3Dgarden&field-keywords=vertical+roaster&Go.x=14&Go.y=7

The type with the drip pans underneath, usually give enough clearance for smoke.

[West Coast Kansan]

HabS, excellent point on the drip pan. Above I said pull the water after the smoke pucks are done.  I dont know but may be a real bad idea without a drip pan.  :(  I use a foil pan (empty) below the chickens. Smoke misses it and get the chickens just fine.  ;D

My thought was chicken grease that close to the heat element is likely not a good idea.  I dont thnk it would get that hot but crazy things happen.  :o

[Habanero Smoker]

HabS, excellent point on the drip pan. Above I said pull the water after the smoke pucks are done.  I dont know but may be a real bad idea without a drip pan.  :(  I use a foil pan (empty) below the chickens. Smoke misses it and get the chickens just fine.  ;D

My thought was chicken grease that close to the heat element is likely not a good idea.  I don't think it would get that hot but crazy things happen.  :o

Always better to be safe. Over the years there has been a couple of posts in which a member's BS caught fire. From the description it looked as if it was caused by a grease fire. Chicken I would be less worried about a grease fire, for the fact that it doesn't take long for one to finish, after the smoke has been applied and most of the fat has been rendered out. On the other hand, if one is doing a butt or a brisket and the water pan runs dry after 4 or 5 hours, then you are looking at an additional 10 or more hours with just grease in the pan.

[Eo0014]

Hello all ...

never done a whole chicken in the BS before, but want to give it a try.  I'm looking to do 2-3 whole (apporx 4 lbs) birds.  Using Smokehouse Rob's Brine as mentioned earlier in this thread, do I totally submerge the birds for the period of time specified?  After that, I'll let them sit in the fridge overnight to dry.  Does cherry work for the birds or is maple the best way to go?  Without a stand, how do I get these suckers to stand upright?

I'll post my results on Monday.