electronically challenged brain needs help setting pid!

Fair-chase · August 07, 2007, 01:32:01 PM

Well I followed the instructions from Rob, and built my pid. I used the Auber pid for ssr output, and ssr. I used an omega tc. Everything went together fine and the unit works.

Now I'm into somthing I know nothing about. The instructions might as well be writin in Chinese.

All I want to do for now is set my target Temp. and run auto tune. How do I do this?

What about the alarm temps. Do you need these if not can they be disabled? If so how do you do it?

I'm worried about pushing the wrong button and changing something that doesn't need changing screwing the whole thing up!

Is there an idiot button (factory default settings) where you can go back to the factory settings if you mess something up?

Thanks for your help!

Tiny Tim · August 07, 2007, 02:00:59 PM

Okay, I'll try to help ya. Press and hold the lower left button (your left when looking at the face of the unit), then some letters and numbers will show. Each time you press that button, another set will show up. I believe the "I" parameter will show up on about the 4th push, followed by the "P" and then the "D". Write these numbers down, but do not change any of them. I think you have like 8 seconds before the unit reverts back to normal operation. Once back to normal operation, you can set your desired temp by pressing the Up and down keys (on the lower right), by just pressing them a couple of times, I don't think you have to hold them. I'd let the smoker warm up to near your desired temp, and have a load in it before letting it autotune. Starting Autotune is done by pressing the lower left button and holding for 2-4 seconds, then cycling through until you see "At", then use the down button to go from "3" to "2". Once done autotuning, it will automatically change the "At" back to 3, and change the numbers on the "I", "P", and "D" settings too.

This is how it worked with mine. I know how those instructions are, and I beleive I said the same thing about them, but probably a different language from Chinese. About the 30th time through them, I started to understand them though.

Fair-chase · August 07, 2007, 02:26:14 PM

Thanks! I'm going to wait till night to try auto tune since it's 102 here today. Put 8 bricks in the freezer to cool off. I will put them in the smoker tonight and run auto tune at 170 since this is my max temp when smoking sausage. Should this work?

Tiny Tim · August 07, 2007, 07:43:08 PM

It'll be in the ballpark right out of the box, so if ya had some food that could cook at that temp, but not as critical as the sausage, I'd throw that in before I'd throw bricks in there. Also, the bricks don't need to be cold, just have something with some mass in there absorbing heat.

Fair-chase · August 07, 2007, 07:44:53 PM

Well I think I successfully ran auto tune. The only question was I couldn't find the AT symbol that is supposed to stand for auto tune. I did find a symbol that looked like A I= that had the 3 factor that I took to 2. I guess this was auto tune.

I took the 8 bricks out of the freezer and placed 2 on each rack. I brought the temp. up to 168 before I started auto tune at 170.

The heat from the smoke generator seems to be over powering my cabinet. Temps are running around 173 - 175. The cabinet element rarely comes on and then only briefly.

Will the moisture in a cooker full of sausage keep the temp down more than the bricks , helping to avoid this problem? If so should I run auto tune with the smoker full of sausage?

If this doesn't work what about bringing the temp up to about 150 ( temp I like to smoke at) turn main burner off and smoke with only the smoke generator for desired time. Then turn generator off and finish cooking at 170 with only the main burnerand pid. I would have to run auto tune with the generator off.

Would this work ?

By the way here are the values auto tune came up with. P- 1642 , I - 437 , D - 575 . Do these seem like they are in the right ball park?

Habanero Smoker · August 08, 2007, 02:53:20 AM

If the ambient temperature is over 60°F, I find that I have to use the cold smoking setup when I smoke sausage. You are not going to be able to control the heat at all if you try to heat the cabinet with the generator only. That is why I use the cold smoke set up.

With the generator attached to the cabinet and the vent wide open, I find that with the temperatures produced by the heat pad on the generator alone my cabinet will reach 185°F sometimes higher, with 5-6 pounds of sausage. I ruined my first batch because of this. The casings where like leather when I took them out of the smoker.

It will do no good to set the PID lower because it does not control the heat source from the generator. I have the Rapture/Guru setup, and if I have it set for 120°F it will have the heat source turned off, but because of the generator the cabinet temperatures will go way beyond the 120°F.

Sausage does not produce that much moisture, and will not keep the cabinet temperature down that much. Especially after the drying stage, you may have problems keeping the heat at a low temperature while you apply the smoke, and the finishing stage. The larger your load will help keep the cabinet temperature down for awhile, but I don't believe it will help for the entire length of the smoking/cooking period.

Kamanodental · August 08, 2007, 12:15:00 PM

Aloha Habenero

I dont know if this will help......but I use the cardboard box technique (a post a long time ago to cold smoke) when I'm smoking sausage. I use the PID and set it to the temp that I desire (usually 170 deg) and it stays at that temp -/+ 2 deg. Because of the length of the hose from the generator to the cabinette, there is no heat rise other then the heat from the cabinette with the PID. My sausage comes out great with this setup. I also use the steam technique a friend gave to me. If interested let me know and I will send to to anyone doing sausage. As you know Im in Hawaii and the cost of sausage (especially local type sausages) is very expensive..... so I always make my own.)

Hope this information helps.

Aloha
Kamano

acords · August 08, 2007, 01:16:49 PM

I'd be interested in learning more about the steam technique your using!!

Habanero Smoker · August 08, 2007, 02:02:04 PM

Aloha Kamanodental;

I now use the same cold smoking set up, after the first time I ruined my sausage casing, though the sausage was alright. I just had to remove the casings.

I am also interested in the steam technique, and would like more information on it.

Kamanodental · August 08, 2007, 03:12:46 PM

Aloha everyone

Let me try to make this as easy as possible...and understandable!!!! This technique will cut the process almost in 1/2 the time. Please note the times and temps of the internal temps of sausage. First I like to keep the sausage after stuffing an hour or so in the fridge to let the sausage blend and skin dry.

8am set smoker @ 100 Deg F 1hr (damper full open)

9am (with sausage) temp drops to 68F in smoker
(close damper 1/2 rise temp to 130F)

*(these temps are the approx temps of the internal sausage temps as a guide)

10am *85F
11am *97F
(close damper 1/4 rise temp to 140F

12am *107F
(increase temp to 160F add smoke)

1PM 116F
2PM 124F
3PM 131F
4PM 135F
(stop smoke and add boiling water...and let steam until internal temp of sausage in 152F. Remove from smoker and cool to 120F using cold water)*******

STEAMING

To get the steam.. I use a hot plate and a pot of water.(dont forget to turn off the smoker...its not needed for the steaming) Keep the the plate on med-high and just let the sausage come to 152F...this should only take 15-20 min to get to the 152 temps. (of course this depends on the amount of sausage for the temps and steaming to that temp.) I usually make 5 lbs of sausage and this is the schedule I came up with.

The times and temps are for a total of time for your information. Just remember the key is to get the internal temps of the sausage to 135F and steam from there to 152F.

If you cant understand this let me know and you can email me!!!!!!

Aloha
Kamano

acords · August 08, 2007, 04:19:36 PM

QuoteSTEAMING

To get the steam.. I use a hot plate and a pot of water.(dont forget to turn off the smoker...its not needed for the steaming) Keep the the plate on med-high and just let the sausage come to 152F...this should only take 15-20 min to get to the 152 temps. (of course this depends on the amount of sausage for the temps and steaming to that temp.) I usually make 5 lbs of sausage and this is the schedule I came up with.

The times and temps are for a total of time for your information. Just remember the key is to get the internal temps of the sausage to 135F and steam from there to 152F.

If you cant understand this let me know and you can email me!!!!!!

Very interesting indeed. I know that the major butcher shops around here finish sticks in a steam cabinet. This is very useful info, thank you for sharing. Are you using a Bradley? If so, do you need to remove the smoke generator? I'm assuming that you would take ou the water pan at least to get the hot plate in.

Kamanodental · August 08, 2007, 08:17:21 PM

Aloha Accords

I do use the BS and I made a wooden plug for the hole where the generator goes. Actually you can use anything to plug up the hole. (you dont want get your generator wett and cause a short) Sorry I should've mentioned it. The hot plate cord go's in the hole where the generator went. If you trouble with the height of the burner and the water pan...I used a cheap frying pan (from the dollar store and took of the handle..works great and if you need to refill...just use boiling water to refill.

Hope this helps..let me know how your sausage turns out!!

Aloha
Kamano

Habanero Smoker · August 09, 2007, 03:06:32 AM

Aloha Kamanodental,

Thanks for the information on steaming. That seems it will make the casings very tender. I will be making some sausage today or tomorrow. I wasn't planning on smoking any, but now I just may smoke a small batch and use the steam technique.

Fair-chase · August 09, 2007, 05:55:21 AM

Thanks for the help and good ideas. I built a cold smoking box last night. I decided to make one out of some scrap plywood I had laying in the shop. The cardboard box was a little unsettling to me. 1 house is more than enough! My scrap was 16" wide and 42" long. I cut them in half and made the box 17x16x21. Also framed the corners with some 1"x1" strips. Got to put the top on and cut the holes, then I think I'll fix it where I can hang the generator on the side just like the Bradley.

Kamanodental · August 09, 2007, 10:58:34 AM

Aloha Habenero

It really make the sausage nice and tender and not so dry. The skin is also very good. I had the same problem with the skin. Now I steam all my sausage. You really dont have to smoke the sausage...I just like the taste of the smoke. Also, if you make salami it works great....

Aloha
Kamano