moisture in smoker

[Tiny Tim]

I noticed the V pan is not resting on the back mounts.  I doubt that is your problem but you probably ought to correct it.

Those pegs are above the level of the "V-Pan" holders, and centered front to back.  I don't know what they do, but they're in the digital only, not the OBS or Stainless.

[Mr Walleye]

Those pegs are used as a guide when sliding the V-pan into place. I'm not sure I can describe this but I will try. You set the rear of the V-pan on the front pegs and begin to slide it back, making sure the V-pan goes under the centre pegs, continue to push the V-pan into place and keeping it up against the centre guide pegs. I wasn't aware they are not on the OBS. I know for sure they are on my DBS.

I looked at the photos and it appears the reflector around the heater is in the correct place, although I agree with Habs, it's had to see in the photo.

I wonder if it was a number of things, that together caused it.

For an example, would the combination of...
- The size of load and how it was arranged. Some of the things I noticed in the photos was the additional inverted racks. If the sausage was laid on the 8 racks, in tightly formed coils, would it affect the air flow in the tower? Not only air flow but would it restrict the heat from getting to the temp sender at the back of the cabinet. This could cause the temp sender to continue to ask for full power on the heat element. Also the restricted air flow would cause the bottom of the cabinet to be much hotter and possibly cause the evaporation of the water.

- The moisture content of the sausage. Again, I'm not experienced at making sausage so I may be off base here especially when you do have experience but I know you add a certain amount of water to your sausage mixture to make it easier to stuff. I wonder if this contributed to the moisture issue.

- The outside air and humidity level. This in combination with the above may have contributed to the problem as well.

If I followed along the thread correctly, you put your pre-dried sausage into the smoker at 150 degrees for 45 minutes followed by 2 hours of smoke before opening the door to rotate racks. Did the smoker remain set at 150 degrees? Could a piece of the sausage have been in contact with the temp sensor inside the tower?

The other thing that would be good to help trouble shoot this is if you did have a Maverick ET73 or any other thermometer with at least two temp probes to monitor the different levels of the cabinet in this situation. This might help to confirm or deny some of these theories.

These were just thoughts racing through my little brain.... just sorta thinking out loud. Next to this the only thing I can think of is the comment about the insulation. Could it be possible the door is missing the insulation? Who knows?
I certainly hope you get this sorted out and I would be interested in what you figure out is the culprit.

Mike

[pensrock]

http://www.flickr.com/photos/15057053@N05/2089024883/
http://www.flickr.com/photos/15057053@N05/2089024503/
http://www.flickr.com/photos/15057053@N05/2089813282/

   Above are three pics showing the heat shield and 'V' tray. The shield and tray look OK but what could be causing the evaporation of the water so quickly? If that is the problem and not condensation from another source.
   I think the V tray is installed correctly. I can not see any other way to install it. It is resting on the front and back pegs. I do not know why there are center pegs, maybe so you cannot install it wrong?
Could the heat be getting trapped under the V tray somehow? There are louvers in the V tray and they are open. During the operation I did see both heat and smoke exiting the smoker through the vent.
   I did have eight layers of sausage in the smoker during the second run and only four layers during the first run. Both times I found water coming out the door when opened. I do see your reasoning of obstructing the air flow. How much sausage should one put in these smokers? I figure I had about 20 pounds, thats less than half that I put in my old homemade smoker but it is a lot bigger than this one. When I opened the door to rearrange the meat, the temperature did drop from 150 to about 100 or so before I got the door closed again. I did order a Maverick from Amazon, per Habs suggestion, but it is on backorder and will not get here till after Xmas. When I mix the sausage I only used 2 cups of water for thirty pounds of meat. Thats about half of what is suggested but it works fine for me.

[Mr Walleye]

I agree with you the V-pan is installed correctly and the centre pegs definitely prevent you from installing the V-pan upsidedown. By the looks of your V-pan the louvers are well opened up and should not trap the hot air in the bottom of the cabinet.

From your new pictures your heat shield on your heater looks fine as well.

Do you think the sausage was arranged in such a fashion that it could have been touching the temp sensor in the back of the cabinet? Even if it wasn't touching, just really close. This could cause a false reading and allow the heating element to stay red hot, causing the water to evaporate.

Has anybody else ran 20 lbs of sausage through? Any problems with moisture?

This just puzzles the he11 out of me!  ???

Mike

[pensrock]

I'll have to take a look at the sensor placement. I cannot say for sure it was not interfered with but I would hope Bradley would have it placed in such a way that it would be nearly impossible to interfere with it.

I hope someone who has run sausage will give me an idea of how much to run. Although the first run I only had 10 pounds in and only in four racks. I did not even have the extra racks in the smoker. I had the same problem with water in this run also.

I just sent Bradley an email and asked that they have someone from customer service look this discussion over. Maybe they can do some brainstorming as well. I know everyone here wants to know what the problem is as well as I do.

Thanks for the ideas!

[Mr Walleye]

The sensor is located inbetween the 2nd and 3rd rack from the bottom. In your picture 100_0643 You can see it just peeking over the 2nd set of rack from the bottom. When you use the inverted racks it lifts your meat, in this case sausage, to nearly being level with the sensor so care must be taken not to let it touch. For that matter anything on your racks should not touch the walls of the smoker either because this will allow grease, etc. to run down the walls, possibly into the heater.

Just more thinkin' out loud.

Mike

[Habanero Smoker]

I have done 15 pounds of sausage at one time, and I never has a moisture problem, but that was during a time when the ambient temperature was in the 50's. I don't think it has anything to do with the sausage or the size of the load. Twenty pounds should not be any problem, as long as you rotate top to bottom, and front to back. With the water pan emptying that fast, that has to be the cause of the moisture. Just have to figure out what is causing the water to evaporate that fast.

I do think that Mike may be on to something with the meat being too close to the sensor or maybe touching it.

[pensrock]

The meat touching the thermocouple would make sense but how would that explain the first run when I only loaded four racks with ten pounds of meat and had the same problem with the water? I'm wondering if the wrong heating element may have been installed causing it to heat much faster than designed? But once it got hot the temperature controller would back the heat off because it would be at the desired temp. Also I do not see any signs of overheating, such as large areas of discolored metal, burn marks.

The company I work for designs and builds industrial furnaces for heat treating and sintering, normally these operate anywhere from 1000 to 2600 degrees F. I have serviced these furnaces for 15 years so I do understand PID control and the way temperature controllers work. A thermocouple being insulated from the area it is to monitor will defiantly cause overheating inside the cabinet. But I just cannot get it through my thick head how this could have happened during the first run. Maybe I have a defective thermocouple?

[pensrock]

Well nothing new from Bradley yet. I was told they discussed this with one to their techs and he said:

'yes you have a moisture problem whether it is too much moisture in the meat, too
much water in the bowl or damper not open enough'

Well duh? We know I have a moisture problem and we discussed all three items he mentioned here in the forums and pretty much ruled out all three. 1) The damper was wide open. 2) The bowl was only half full and dry after four hours. (I still think this is the problem but do not know why.) 3) Too much water in the sausage. I only use 2 cups for a 30 pound batch. The recipie calls for one quart, I have no problems with 2 cups, it has always worked well for me. Most recipies I have seen always call for more water than I use. Can anyone here suggest how much they use?

She suggested I call him to discuss it, so I tried as soon as I got home from work but they are on the west coast and he was gone for the day. I'll try to phone him in the morning, and update you after I talk with him and get home from work. Hopefully after talking it over on the phone we can come up with a few ideas.

[Habanero Smoker]

I've done several sausage recipes and the amount of liquid varies depending on the meat, other ingredients, and the style of sausage you are making. If you are using less then the original recipe is calling for, then I doubt the sausage is causing the moisture problem. The water in the bowl should not cause the problem under normal use. When the water evaporates as quick as you say it does, when the sensor is showing temperatures of 150°F, that is a problem.

[West Coast Kansan]

Not saying this is right but....

Thermosensor is bad or as discusses above product touching the thermocouple protecting it from the heat coming up the back. This allows you to empty the water bowl.

plus

Arrangement of the sausage on the racks adaquately blocks the flow of air through the unit.  Lets you have condensation- Yea i know it happened with 10 lbs as well as 20 but 10 could do it if you pack it tight on a rack - Yea, OK

I quit, only coming back to this thread when someone PMs me it is solved.  Making me crazy.  ???

[pensrock]

A quick update. I talked with a tech from Bradley on the phone on Friday. He does not feel there is a problem with the sensor or the temperature controller but does think the moisture is coming from the water in the bowl. He asked how far open the louvers in the V tray were. Since I was at work I could not measure them but told him they looked like they were open and not squeezed shut or anything like that. I also suggested he look this discussion over so he could check out the pictures and get up to speed on everything we have been discussing. He told me to take some pliers and open the louvers in the V tray even more than they are; he believes the heat is being trapped between the V tray and the water bowl causing it to overheat. He said, like you also told me, that the water in the bowl should last much longer than it had for me. By opening the louvers it should allow a better flow of heat to the smoker area instead of trapping it below.
I asked about how the units were insulated and if it were possible that they forgot to insulate the door of other area of the unit. He said it would be very easy to check since the whole thing is injected with high temp foam, there should be no voids. He said to just press on the inside of the door it should feel solid and not give. After he said it was foam injected I really do not think insulation is the problem.
I have not opened the louvers yet because at the moment I have nothing to smoke, but I will most defiantly give it a try as soon as I come up with something to smoke. I'm open for suggestions, anyone have any ideas for something quick and easy to try? I do want to make kielbasa but that takes a while and I would like to try something ASAP so I determine if the more open louver idea works.

[Smoking Duck]

Yardbirds are pretty quick and easy.

[Wildcat]

Meatloaf and the chicken wrap are quick and easy.

[Mr Walleye]

Try some Chicken Thighs with your favorite rub. Mmmmmm they're tasty too!  ;)

Mike