Fermento Substitute

[Buck36]

Could any of the seasoned sausage makers explain the fermentation of sausage? I was looking for a substitute for Fermento. I have read from other makers that they were not happy with the taste imparted by Fermento. I am looking for a little "tang" to be added but the more I research, the more confused I become:

- One site http://schmidling.com/saus.htm states that Fermento is nothing more than expensive dry buttermilk. http://www.deejayssmokepit.net/CuringAgents.htm

- Another says that you should use encapsulated citric acid.....but others say that is the wrong way.

- Butcher & Packer get high marks for their starter cultures but there are so many I don't really get what to use. http://www.butcher-packer.com/index.php?main_page=index&cPath=207&zenid=c569d70750658f5c750cfeb1fa0ce958

- If I add too much the sausage will be mush, too little no taste difference.

- Then the scary stuff starts. I have read how if I do this incorrectly I could get everyone sick from botulism. Which has a 70% fatality rate. http://greerranch.com/jeff/sausage/  Len Poli states how it should not even be attempted unless you have a good understanding of chemistry and microbiology.http://lpoli.50webs.com/Tips.htm#Starter

- I then hit other forums but that information is all over the place and unreliable.

To make a short story longer than it needed to be, I am lost. I am comfortable with making the fresh and cured sausage. I am wanting to learn a new process, fermentation, in making sausage to improve the taste.....but I don't want to get anyone sick.

Am I making it more complex than needed?

[Smokin Soon]

I use the Fermento from Sausagemaker and have been satisfied with the results. Don't know much about the science about it other than what I have learned from the Rytek Kuta's book. I just follow directions, I figure they have already made the mistakes.

[NePaSmoKer]

Encapsilated citric acid.

nepas

[Buck36]

Thanks for the responses!

I agree SS that directions are always key but I am experimenting with some new flavors/recipes. I am glad to hear your input on the taste of Fermento. 

Nepas thanks for the input. Butcher Packer only has one kind on encapsulated citric acid and it is $5.65. That makes the decision much easier! 

[NePaSmoKer]

I buy most of my sausage items fro eldons. Eldon Cutlip is a master sausage maker. I have learned alot from his site and videos. Just click the link and click on his front page under sausage making ingredients. His store and staff are top shelf.

http://www.eldonsausage.com/


nepas

[Smokin Soon]

Thanks for that link Nepa. Have you ever done the Swedish Potatoe Sausage? Looks interesting.

[NePaSmoKer]

Thanks for that link Nepa. Have you ever done the Swedish Potatoe Sausage? Looks interesting.

Yes

The mrs didnt like that much.

I have 150 lbs of venison to grind this week and freeze. Going to make big sausage, snack stix and jerky when i get back from calif.

nepas

[Buck36]

That is my situation too. I have 3 deer in the freezer that I want to experiment with different sausages and snack sticks. Thanks for the link.

[Habanero Smoker]

Can you explain what type of sausages you are making; is your goal to add tang to fully cooked, or semi-dried sausage or dry cured sausage. That will help others to answer your question. I've tried to fully dry cure sausage but given up until I can set up a chamber to control the environment. For the time being I make semi-dried sausage.

Fermento sold by Sausage Maker is buttermilk powder. As far as it being expensive buttermilk powder, that can be misleading. Fermento is cultured buttermilk, which is always more expensive then most buttermilk, or buttermilk powders out there. Most buttermilk products are just skimmed milk with some type of acid added (such as citric acid) to give a tangy buttermilk flavor. If you go to the store a buy a good quality buttermilk powder like Saco's brand, you will see that Sausage Maker is a good deal. Cultured butter milk, will ferment in your sausage and give it an additional tang. Not as well as Bactoferm, but fermento develops the tangy taste much quicker; because the flavor of the buttermilk simulates the tangy flavor. I didn't like fermento at first until Mike (Mr. Walleye) pointed out that I needed to hold the sausage in the smoker longer.

I've never used Bactoferm, but you recipe should spell out which one to use. But it is best for dry curing over a longer period of time to develop the tangy taste. If you are semi-drying sausage then fermento or encapsulated citric acid is the best choice. If you are at a lost of which culture to purchase Charcuterie recommends Bactoferm F-RM-52 for dry curing.

When making semi-dry sausage as long as you add the proper amount of cure you shouldn't have to worry about botulism. The appropriate amount of cure #1 for semi-dried sausage is 1/4 teaspoon per pound of meat and fat. If you find a recipe from a good source, you should be alright.

[Buck36]

Habs,

Thank you for the thorough explanation. I am using it for fully cooked and semi-dried sausage. The recipes I have used for sausage and snack sticks didn't include any fermentation ingredients. I was hoping to learn about the process to see if I could incorporate it into some of the recipes. I am also trying to get everything together and I was hoping to get all the needed supplies in one order.

Thanks for again to everyone for all the information, this is one of the best sites to have fun and learn! 

[NePaSmoKer]

yes it is a good place to learn from. everyone has their own way of doing things, fun to see and try out.


nepas

[Mr Walleye]

Hi Buck

Here is a thread from a while back that we had a really good discussion on Fermento, whats in Fermento and how it works. It's a long read but it really helped me understand the semi-dried process better.

http://forum.bradleysmoker.com/index.php?topic=6727.0

Hope that helps...

Mike

[Habanero Smoker]

Buck36,

You're welcome. As for the amount of fermento to use, similar to one of the sources you posted, according to the 'Great Sausage Recipes" by R. Kutas, he also states use 1% - 6%, but he does recommend starting at 3%, then in future batches you can adjust if you like less or more tang.

[Buck36]

Hi Buck

Here is a thread from a while back that we had a really good discussion on Fermento, whats in Fermento and how it works. It's a long read but it really helped me understand the semi-dried process better.

http://forum.bradleysmoker.com/index.php?topic=6727.0

Hope that helps...

Mike

Thanks for the link! It was a good read. I better order some more pucks I got quite a bit of experimenting to do!