Lox Help

gotbbq · February 23, 2005, 11:33:35 PM

I've made lox a bunch of times, all great. If I wanted to make the fish a little firmer should I leave it in the dry brine longer? Any thoughts?

Gotbbq[^][^][^]

bsolomon · February 24, 2005, 07:56:56 PM

Interesting question, but I don't have a definite answer. My guess would be longer in the dry brine, and shorter in the wet brine (if you are doing a two-part method) and you would end up with less moisture in the fish, and a firmer texture overal. If you experiment, let us know the results.

smokinrookieswife · February 24, 2005, 10:13:12 PM

Just curious .... Is locks a certain kind of fish? I always heard of locks and bagles, but I never knew if it was any specific kind of fish, or just fish in general. May be a stupid question, but I would sure like to know!! Us Southerners just call it Fish!! [:)][:p][:p]

smokem' from behind!

gotbbq · February 24, 2005, 10:55:53 PM

Lox is made from salmon, brined and then cold smoked. Sliced thin on a bagel with cream cheese is almost as good as smoking a cigar in the house.

Gotbbq[^][^][^]

<blockquote id="quote">quote:<hr height="1" noshade id="quote">Originally posted by smokinrookieswife
 Just curious .... Is locks a certain kind of fish? I always heard of locks and bagles, but I never knew if it was any specific kind of fish, or just fish in general. May be a stupid question, but I would sure like to know!! Us Southerners just call it Fish!! [:)][:p][:p]

smokem' from behind!
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SMOKEHOUSE ROB · February 24, 2005, 11:01:50 PM

gotbbq? are you useing fresh salmon or frozen? frozen salmon make better lox. by frezing them first then make lox they will be firmer.

smokinrookieswife · February 25, 2005, 11:31:31 AM

Thanks gotbbq, I have wondered about that for so long! I will have to try some now. Can't wait! He! He! [:D][8D]<blockquote id="quote">quote:<hr height="1" noshade id="quote">Originally posted by gotbbq
 Lox is made from salmon, brined and then cold smoked. Sliced thin on a bagel with cream cheese is almost as good as smoking a cigar in the house.

Gotbbq[^][^][^]

<blockquote id="quote">quote:<hr height="1" noshade id="quote">Originally posted by smokinrookieswife
 Just curious .... Is locks a certain kind of fish? I always heard of locks and bagles, but I never knew if it was any specific kind of fish, or just fish in general. May be a stupid question, but I would sure like to know!! Us Southerners just call it Fish!! [:)][:p][:p]

smokem' from behind!
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smokem' from behind!

SMOKEHOUSE ROB · February 25, 2005, 01:56:34 PM

<blockquote id="quote">quote:<hr height="1" noshade id="quote">Originally posted by smokinrookieswife
 Thanks gotbbq, I have wondered about that for so long! I will have to try some now. Can't wait! He! He! [:D][8D]<blockquote id="quote">quote:<hr height="1" noshade id="quote">Originally posted by gotbbq
 Lox is made from salmon, brined and then cold smoked. Sliced thin on a bagel with cream cheese is almost as good as smoking a cigar in the house.

Gotbbq[^][^][^]

<blockquote id="quote">quote:<hr height="1" noshade id="quote">Originally posted by smokinrookieswife
 Just curious .... Is locks a certain kind of fish? I always heard of locks and bagles, but I never knew if it was any specific kind of fish, or just fish in general. May be a stupid question, but I would sure like to know!! Us Southerners just call it Fish!! [:)][:p][:p]

smokem' from behind!
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<hr height="1" noshade id="quote"></blockquote id="quote">

smokem' from behind!
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resturaunts use lox for cooking, most of your dishes that you order are made with lox, besides grilled salmon. if you try to make say a pasta dish with salmon. you would cook up the salmon and then put it in your pasta it will flake apart into nothing. so when you cook with lox it will stay firm and will give it a beter flavor and wont be fishy, and have those nice bite size pices.when you make lox when done it looks like its still raw, but its not. to make a pasta dish , slice it up kida thin about an 1/8 inch . cook up some pasta in a white sauce, then right when its done throw in some lox about a minute later its done the lox will turn pink and stay together will look like cooked salmon, but will be firm and have a slite smoked flavor. kinda get the idea,

tsquared · February 25, 2005, 06:11:25 PM

Gotbbq- Check out my post on the lox recipe thread for more info on dry salting for firmness. More time in the dry salt will definately firm your fish up and save you time drying it out. How long you keep it in the salt depends on a couple of things. First, what type of salmon or trout you are using--how fat are they? The fattier the fish, the more flavour but the salt takes longer to penetrate. Secondly, how thick are your fillets? You should lay your fillets in a quarter inch or so of rock salt and if your fillets are more than an inch thick, score the skin diagonally across the fillets 3 or 4 times and rub some rock salt in the slashes to get the salt into the thickest part. If your fillets are really thick, you need to use a brining needle and inject brine into the thickest parts. Put some salt on top. When you think they might be ready,use your finger for a firmness check, if the fillet feels firm (springs back nicely when pressed), you are done and it's time to rinse the salt off. Most commercial smoking places don't use a brine for lox because it takes longer to dry the fish out and achieve the firmness you want. I have always used dry salt with a few spices for my lox but am going to try Spyguy's recipe next time just out of curiosity.
Smokinrookie's wife- as Rob says lox is made out of salmon or even large trout or char. Not all types of salmon will give you good lox,tho. There are 5 types of Pacific salmon-chinook(king), coho(silvers), sockeye, pinks, and chum or dog salmon. The first 3 are good for making lox but I wouldn't try it with pinks or chum salmon as there is not enough oil in these fish to make good lox. I prefer sockeye over all but other people like Kummok prefer Kings. He's from Alaska so you have to make allowances.[:D] You can also make fine lox from lake trout or Arctic char or Atlantic salmon or steelhead. Are you sorry you asked yet?[:)]
Anyway, there you go. Love your enthusiasm about smoking. Keep it up.
Tom

gotbbq · February 25, 2005, 06:41:35 PM

tsquared-

Thanks for the info. I use a mix of salt and sugar, about 40/60. Left in mixture about 7 hrs in fridge. A fair amout of liquid accumulates. Then a wet brine. I use spyguy's recipe, it has been great.I'll try leaving it longer to firm it up just a bit. Not sure if my salmon has been previously frozen, will ask my fish guy. Havent tried trout yet. Maybe this weekend. Same procedure?

gotbbq[^][^][^]

<blockquote id="quote">quote:<hr height="1" noshade id="quote">Originally posted by tsquared
 Gotbbq- Check out my post on the lox recipe thread for more info on dry salting for firmness. More time in the dry salt will definately firm your fish up and save you time drying it out. How long you keep it in the salt depends on a couple of things. First, what type of salmon or trout you are using--how fat are they? The fattier the fish, the more flavour but the salt takes longer to penetrate. Secondly, how thick are your fillets? You should lay your fillets in a quarter inch or so of rock salt and if your fillets are more than an inch thick, score the skin diagonally across the fillets 3 or 4 times and rub some rock salt in the slashes to get the salt into the thickest part. If your fillets are really thick, you need to use a brining needle and inject brine into the thickest parts. Put some salt on top. When you think they might be ready,use your finger for a firmness check, if the fillet feels firm (springs back nicely when pressed), you are done and it's time to rinse the salt off. Most commercial smoking places don't use a brine for lox because it takes longer to dry the fish out and achieve the firmness you want. I have always used dry salt with a few spices for my lox but am going to try Spyguy's recipe next time just out of curiosity.
Smokinrookie's wife- as Rob says lox is made out of salmon or even large trout or char. Not all types of salmon will give you good lox,tho. There are 5 types of Pacific salmon-chinook(king), coho(silvers), sockeye, pinks, and chum or dog salmon. The first 3 are good for making lox but I wouldn't try it with pinks or chum salmon as there is not enough oil in these fish to make good lox. I prefer sockeye over all but other people like Kummok prefer Kings. He's from Alaska so you have to make allowances.[:D] You can also make fine lox from lake trout or Arctic char or Atlantic salmon or steelhead. Are you sorry you asked yet?[:)]
Anyway, there you go. Love your enthusiasm about smoking. Keep it up.
Tom
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tsquared · February 25, 2005, 10:14:17 PM

Gotbbq-Same procedure works for trout. The thickness of the fillet is the key.Adjust the amount of salt you use to the thickness of your fillet. It is better to be conservative about the amount of salt you put on. When you finger test it and it does not feel firm and doesn't spring back nicely, it is simple to just leave it in longer. Too much salt is harder to deal with as you have to freshen your fish in fresh water. If you are using 4+ lb trout then the front 2/3 of the fillet should be OK to salt. I trim the thin sections of the belly flaps off and save them for other things. The tail sections I save for grilling as they too are thinner and are difficult not to oversalt. You mentioned the liquid run off when salting--be sure to keep your fillets drained. Sounds like you are on the right track. All this talk of bagels and lox has made me realize that I'm down to my last piece of lox in the freezer. I'll have to get busy![:p]
Tom

gotbbq · February 26, 2005, 11:55:52 AM

Tsquared-

I get the concept behind the salt- drawing out the moisture, does the sugar really make a difference. If all the "action" is on taking moisture out, how's the sugar get in. Any thoughts?

Gotbbq[^][^][^]

Kummok · February 26, 2005, 06:21:09 PM

<blockquote id="quote">quote:<hr height="1" noshade id="quote">Originally posted by smokinrookieswife
 .....Us Southerners just call it Fish!! [:)][:p][:p]

smokem' from behind!
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SR'sWife, us Waaaay Northerners call it Bait, Thinly sliced!![:D][;)][:D]

Actually, Lox is one of nature's treats that I have yet to try....no reason, just haven't tried it yet. Always looked like raw fish to me, and that's bait in my small circle of displaced cowboy friends. I WILL try it though, with a Kokanee brew close at hand as a taste replacer, just in case! BUT,then again, mi amigo from Down South[;)], tsquared, is absolutely correct....you DO have to make some allowances for us ol' Sourdoughs from Alaska...it may turn out to be one of those many taste treats that end up making me feel like I've cheated myself for not trying it 45 years ago![:p][:D]

SmokehouseRob, I don't doubt your "pasta dish with salmon" advice for a minute...you have too much demonstrated experience to question. Besides, I don't want to pull yer chain and have you design my next Rack Rack, (I'm ordering another one from CB next week..YES!![:D][:D]), with hinges to bow its legs when the last rack goes in and drop all 8 totally full racks to the deck.[:D][:0][;)][;)] However, my wife and I make a blackened salmon/pasta dish in which, for whatever reason, the salmon stays together quite well. I'll be posting it in the recipes as soon as we convert it from memory to writing, but I cut the King in 1/2 cubes and blacken it with Chef Paul's 'Blackened Redfish Magic' before folding it into the pasta and veggies[:p]. The cubes hold together very well, but the dish is a one night act, meaning that it isn't much good as a leftover[xx(]. Haven't tried any size of the salmon cut other than cubed in the pasta, nor have I tried any other method of cooking other than blackening with it. Hearing your advice, I won't waste much time experimenting..ThanX![:D][8D]

35 years of extinguishing smoking stuff and now I'm wondering WHY!
Kummok @ Homer, AK USA

tsquared · February 26, 2005, 06:39:40 PM

<blockquote id="quote">quote:<hr height="1" noshade id="quote">I get the concept behind the salt- drawing out the moisture, does the sugar really make a difference. If all the "action" is on taking moisture out, how's the sugar get in. Any thoughts?
<hr height="1" noshade id="quote"></blockquote id="quote"> The salt does draw most of the moisture out but not all of it. The brown sugar draws some out as well. I think that sugar is put on to draw a little more moisture out but mainly for the taste. It gives the salmon some sweetness to go along with the salt. The salt/sugar taste along with the hint of rum from when you wipe the fish off is wonderful.Oh man GotBBQ, you are killing me with all this lox talk! The book I refer to in the other thread "Smoking Salmon and Trout" by Jack Whelan is truly a great book to own. It gives all kinds of info on different kinds of fish smoking and the history of each. For instance, he talks about how the First Nations here on the West Coast valued different salmon for different reasons. They loved sockeye for it's high oil content--important for their diet. They valued chum salmon for exactly the opposite reason--it has relatively little oil in it and thus would not go rancid for a long period of time. They would save the smoked chum to eat in the late winter/springtime period just before the first salmon runs of the summer got going. This period was potentially a time of starvation if they were not prepared.
Tom

Kummok · February 26, 2005, 09:54:28 PM

<blockquote id="quote">quote:<hr height="1" noshade id="quote">Originally posted by tsquared

Quote.....This period was potentially a time of starvation if they were not prepared.
Tom
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'specially if they potlatched their food away!![:0] I've heard of some tribes that neared extinction for that reason[|)]

Gotta admit tsquared, yer description is REALLY making me want to give this lox thing a try.[:p][:D]

35 years of extinguishing smoking stuff and now I'm wondering WHY!
Kummok @ Homer, AK USA

tsquared · February 27, 2005, 12:54:20 AM

You're hooked now, Kummok, lox stock and barrel![:D]
Tom