Wet Brine vs Dry Cure?

Remington · June 09, 2005, 04:32:52 AM

I posted earlier in the meat forum about making bacon. A few guys there were very helpful and I hope they read this as well and respond.

I purchased some cures from Buthcher & Packer. Some could be used as both wet and dry and the others just mentioned mixing wet.

The cure I'm interested in is Hickory Cajun Bacon. The directions are as follows.

Mix 4.43lbs of brine mix with 0.40 pounds of D.Q. cure (Included) in 2 1/2 gallons of water. Inject into meat at 20% gain. Take remaining brine and place into a plastic container along with meat and allow to soak for 24 hours. Remove and process the meat and cook until the internal temperature reaches 160°F.

My questions are.
Can I use this as a dry rub and how would I break it down? Also how long should I cure it?

If I would use it as a brine, how long should I leave it in and do I have to inject it?

These should answer my questions and allow me to get some meat curing this weekend. Thanks for the help. I would be lost with out this site.

Remington

jaeger · June 09, 2005, 04:59:43 AM

Remington,
I would follow the recommended directions for the first go round. Using the pump will cure the bacon faster. I think 24 hours doesn't seem long enough. If you are planning to cure anything larger than bellies, I would leave it down longer than 24 hours.
If you do decide to use a dry rub, coat the entire outside with the mixture and leave it refrigerated for at least 7 days.(for bellies, longer for larger cuts of meat)
Regardless of the way you decide to cure, make sure you rinse off very well and soak in fresh cold water for at least 1-2 hours.

I think you will be more happy with the brine.

Doug

Remington · June 09, 2005, 05:55:26 AM

jaeger

Thanks for the info. Do you have to inject the meat or can you just put it in the brine and let it go?

Thanks
Remington

Bad Flynch · June 09, 2005, 04:00:21 PM

You can cure by dry rubbing if the directions on the package allow for it. Some do and some do not. Dry rubbing involves much more time and is more liable to produce an uneven cure. In addition, remember that once you start curing, there is a race to see who gets the meat first: the bacteria that produce spoilage or you. Pump curing with a brine produces a more even cure at a much faster rate. I have done both.

Plain soaking in brine is a common practice, but suffers a little from the above mentioned disability; it is slower than injecting the meat and soaking. In addition pieces that are plain soaked need to be kept 100 percent submerged or irregularities in color and cure will be produced. Areas of the meat that are exposed to air tend to turn grey and sometimes taste funny. That means sterilizing extra equipment to keep the meat submerged.

B.F.

jaeger · June 09, 2005, 09:53:23 PM

Remington,
I agree with Bad Flynch. Pumping will speed up the time needed to cure. If you are curing bellies for bacon, you can get by without pumping but you will need to leave it in the brine for at least a week, longer if they are very thick on one end.

Doug

Phone Guy · June 09, 2005, 10:56:43 PM

There are some that cure for 21 days. If you follow the instructions and keep the temp around 40 deg. there is nothing to worry about. I have made bacon several times and never injected. I have tried a couple diffrent recipe's and they always come out fine. Don't wory about the meat being in the refer to long. Just follow the instructions.

BigSmoker · June 10, 2005, 06:47:17 PM

I've only dry cured stuff. Seems to work really well(Thanks to the duck killers directions). I do vacuum seal the product to seal out all the air but have never had a problem. Have fun.

Jeff

Some say BBQ is in your blood, if thats true my blood must be BBQ sauce.

Remington · June 11, 2005, 02:55:09 AM

I e-mailed them and they were nice enough to respond. They said a soak brine would take about 48 hours and penetrate only about 1 1/2 inches on each side for a max of 3" pork belly.

They did not reply on a dry rub and the package does not state how long. I will have to go by the advise on here and juist keep an eye on it. Thanks again for the help and I'll keep you posted.

Remington
here is a copy of the response.

APPROXIMATELY 48 HOURS. KEEP IN MIND THAT A "SOAK" BRINE WILL ONLY PENETRATE 1 1/2 INCHES ON BOTH SIDES, MEANING THAT IF THE PORK BELLIES ARE A MAXIMUM OF 3 INCHES THICK YOU SHOULD NOT HAVE ANY PROBLEMS. HOPE THIS HELPS.

JJC · June 13, 2005, 04:39:36 AM

Just a thought on the 3 inch max issue for the pork bellies in a wet brine . . . if you used a vacuum marinator (like the Reveo that nsxbill sells) either at the beginning or during the middle of the brining process, would that help the brine penetrate further?

John
Newton MA

jaeger · June 13, 2005, 04:51:43 AM

John,
With a commercial size tumbler, there is no better way to cure bellies. I usually still let them sit in the cooler for one day just to give the cure a chance to penetrate more.
With the Reveo, the pieces would have to be cut pretty small to get a good "tumbling". You would also have to tumble for at least 2 hours.

Doug

manxman · June 13, 2005, 08:03:54 PM

I came across a comment from a commercial smokehouse internet site that suggests that dry curing is better for cold smoking whereas wet brining is better for hot smoking:

The comment is from an award winning smokehouse proprietor who has a "masterclass" information leaflet on the web.

Can anyone enlighten me as to possible reasons why??

Manxman.

Manxman.

Bad Flynch · June 13, 2005, 08:47:48 PM

>Can anyone enlighten me as to possible reasons why??<

I cannot cite the chemistry behind the difference, but everything I have read states that to take a good cold smoke, meat must be reasonably dry. If you brine cure, it takes forever to get to the point where the meat does not have a little excess moisture. In my own experience, hot smoking is not as much affected by the moisture as is cold smoking. Moisture seems to prevent cold smoking from adhering properly. Part of the process is that the drying forms a protein coating on the outside, called a pellicle, that seems to take the smoke better.

The books that I have (and my limited experience suggests) even state that to cold smoke one should put the meat in a smokehouse and put enough heat to the smokehouse to circulate air and dry the meat before smoke is applied. Once the meat is thoroughly dry, but by no means cooked, cold smoking can commence.

Hope that helps.

B.F.

manxman · June 13, 2005, 08:55:40 PM

Hi Bad Flynch,

That explanation certainly makes sense, thanks, it does help![:D][:D]

Manxman.

JJC · June 14, 2005, 04:37:00 AM

<blockquote id="quote">quote:<hr height="1" noshade id="quote">Originally posted by jaeger
 John,
With a commercial size tumbler, there is no better way to cure bellies. I usually still let them sit in the cooler for one day just to give the cure a chance to penetrate more.
With the Reveo, the pieces would have to be cut pretty small to get a good "tumbling". You would also have to tumble for at least 2 hours.

Doug

<hr height="1" noshade id="quote"></blockquote id="quote">
If you tumbled for two hours, would that significantly shorten the curing time needed?

John
Newton MA

jaeger · June 14, 2005, 05:18:20 AM

John,
With the commercial tumbler, after 2 hours, the bellies are cured through and ready for the smoker. With a dry cure or a brine (soak) you are looking at 7 days to cure.

Doug