Total N00b looking for answers about DBS

[LordofTime]

Hey all.  I'm really interested in getting a Bradley Smoker because I use to be a big grill man but ever since an injury to my knee I can no longer stand any longer the time needed to grill the food.  So since my family loves my BBQ and I don't want to give it up I started looking on the net and came across this machine.  I have a few questions if anyone has the time to answer them for me it would be appreciated :) 

I have ZERO experience with this machine or cooking with anything like it.  Since I'm totally clueless and don't feel like constantly fidgeting with a temperature lever at the bottom of the unit (and I hear that lever breaks often too) I was considering getting the digital model but wanted to make sure it was the right decision considering it's 150.00 more than the OBS.

1.)  Is using the Digital model really that more accurate than just guessestimating with the Original?  I mean if I wanted to say cook something for 4 hours/smoke 2 hours at 210 degrees and set that on the machine will it maintain that temperature the full 4 hours or will it constantly fluctuate even after the initial recovery?

2.)  I hear that the machine turns off once it hits the target temperature you set it at so that the heating element constantly has to turn on and recover to maintain the target temp.  So if I wanted to cook something at 210 then I would want to set the machine at 220 so that when it kicks off it won't dip below the desired cooking temperature.

3.)  For most purposes I won't be cooking tons and tons of meat at any given time.  At best I might throw on a 3-4 lb beef roast, brisket, pork loin, etc if I'm doing a large cut of meat.  When I'm not cooking that then I'll probably throw on some burgers, hot dogs, and ribs if we have a BBQ.  Does the machine come with instructions on what kind of meat your cooking and the lbs on say a chart that tells you how long to cook, at what temp, and how long to smoke or are those all questions the chef as to figure out?  Example:  My wife buys a nice 4 lb beef roast which she would normally put in the oven and make roast beef out of.  But it would taste a lot better if I seasoned and smoked it in the Bradley.  So for a 4lb beef roast would the manual tell me how long to cook/smoke and at what temp or do I have to figure that out myself?

4.)  I have a remote meat thermometer to put inside of any meat that will tell me what the IT of the piece is so that I know when it's done but that doesn't tell you what temperature to cook at or how long which could lead to cooking too long and drying out the meat before it's reached the right target IT.  If you put in 3 trays of ribs in the machine will the cook time for one rack be consistent for all of them or will the added volume in the machine alter the total cook time?  When I use to grill I would eyeball it and just knew when the meat was done so I could take it off right away and not dry it out.  But setting a time and temperature on the machine means relying on the thermometer but I could hit the target IT but have cooked it too long or hot and ended up drying the meat out. 

Heh I know my questions are a little long winded but this is a big financial purchase especially in this economy and putting out 450.00 for the digital is something I want to be damn sure about.  After reading all the posts in the forums I've come to the conclusion that the DBS is slightly better constructed than the OBS and the interior is also stainless steel instead of aluminum which helps with cleaning and making sure rust doesn't form since I live in Maryland and we have a high humidity factor.  I don't want to have to constantly babysit the food while it cooks and would rather set the machine to cook for a specific length of time at a specific temperature and the DBS sounds the way to go.  The OBS from what I've read requires a great deal of tweaking to not only set a target temperature but also after the meat is placed in the machine you have to fiddle with the temperature again to make sure the machine compensates for the added volume.  Whereas the digital if you set it for 220 the machine will switch on and stay on until it reaches 220 and maintains that temp throughout the cooking process.

Thanks for the time guys and if anyone answers know I am very appreciative!

[Sorce]

I'm sure someone else will come along and add some more info but I'll try:

1) The original will take some tweaking to get the temps where you want them. However you can use a PID which is a device that connects between the power and the smoker that turns the power on and off to keep the temp constant.

2) I don't have the digital so I can't really comment on this one. With the OBS and PID it keeps it with in 1 or 2 degrees + and -. So no need to up the temps.

3) This forum will be your friend, a lot of helpful people and a lot of experience here. Also with a lot of meat, it will tell you that it's done by the internal temp. I see in #4 you have a remote thermometer so this should be your guide. A lot of cuts can vary on the cook time.

4) I've found so far that I wind up cooking a lot of things at 225. Again this forum has a lot of advice to help you with that. With the volume of meat issue you will still cook at the same temperature, it just may take longer. You will also probably want to rotate the racks when you have more meat in there so you change which is being exposed to higher heat.

[StickyDan]

I'd suggest getting the OBS and with the money you save, you can buy the Auber PID.  I have the DBS and it's not as accurate as I think it should be.  If I could start over, that's what I would do.  I think the cost works out to about the same.  I'm sure other here will back me up.  Good luck.

[Caneyscud]

I have ZERO experience with this machine or cooking with anything like it.  Since I'm totally clueless and don't feel like constantly fidgeting with a temperature lever at the bottom of the unit (and I hear that lever breaks often too) I was considering getting the digital model but wanted to make sure it was the right decision considering it's 150.00 more than the OBS.

Well first off, you have to decide what you will likely be smoking.  If mainly ribs, butts, briskets, chuckies, chickens - then either can do the job very well.  The Original will take a little longer of a learning curve to get it dialed in.  Many have had their Originals for years and have turned out great food.

1.)  Is using the Digital model really that more accurate than just guessestimating with the Original?  I mean if I wanted to say cook something for 4 hours/smoke 2 hours at 210 degrees and set that on the machine will it maintain that temperature the full 4 hours or will it constantly fluctuate even after the initial recovery?

It is not more accurate - 225 is going to be 225.  But the digital is more precise and less work.  You set it at 225 and it seeks 225.  While on the Original - you do the seeking for 225.  Like ANY smoker there will be variances of temp while cooking.  There are control devices available to control those better.  But the Bradley is designed for low-n-slow.  It is not a blueprinted, fully blown hot rod.  If you put in 30 pounds of icy cold butts, its gonna take a while to get the temp up to 225 again.  

2.)  I hear that the machine turns off once it hits the target temperature you set it at so that the heating element constantly has to turn on and recover to maintain the target temp.  So if I wanted to cook something at 210 then I would want to set the machine at 220 so that when it kicks off it won't dip below the desired cooking temperature.

Basically that is the apparent algorithm with the Bradley.  I don't think it samples the temp very often so that when it reaches 210, it does cut the element off.  The control is just on and off - no variance in the power to the element.  Then, if early in the cook, because the meat is still cold, the temp rapidly drops.  By the time it samples the temp again, it has dropped below 210 and the controller will cut the element on again.  When it samples the temp again, the temp is likely over 210 so it shuts down.  On and on.  As the meat gets closer to the cabinet temperature, the less swing there is.  I usually cook at either 220 or 230 - I have a digital, 225 is not available. and just leave it.  It seems to do a good job of averaging.  I'm not as concerned as many with maintaining exactly 225.  I'm interested in being close - the butts, brisket, ribs don't seem to care too much either - as long as I'm close.  Now if it stays below 225 for an extended amount of time (not usually), it will lengthen the cook.  Likewise if over 225 for extended time, it will shorten the cook.  

3.)  For most purposes I won't be cooking tons and tons of meat at any given time.  At best I might throw on a 3-4 lb beef roast, brisket, pork loin, etc if I'm doing a large cut of meat.  When I'm not cooking that then I'll probably throw on some burgers, hot dogs, and ribs if we have a BBQ.  Does the machine come with instructions on what kind of meat your cooking and the lbs on say a chart that tells you how long to cook, at what temp, and how long to smoke or are those all questions the chef as to figure out?  Example:  My wife buys a nice 4 lb beef roast which she would normally put in the oven and make roast beef out of.  But it would taste a lot better if I seasoned and smoked it in the Bradley.  So for a 4lb beef roast would the manual tell me how long to cook/smoke and at what temp or do I have to figure that out myself?

Multiple comments needed here.  You mention burgers and hot dogs.  For the sake of repeating myself the Bradley is a low powered oven with a smoke generator hanging off the side.  It is not a grill.  Although I have cooked burgers and dogs on smokers before, a grill is more efficient.  As far as a chart, no, there is not a chart per se.  There are recipes that can get you started.  But the rule of thumb of 1.5 to 2 hours per pound at 225 degree cabinet temperature is a good place to start.

4.)  I have a remote meat thermometer to put inside of any meat that will tell me what the IT of the piece is so that I know when it's done but that doesn't tell you what temperature to cook at or how long which could lead to cooking too long and drying out the meat before it's reached the right target IT.  If you put in 3 trays of ribs in the machine will the cook time for one rack be consistent for all of them or will the added volume in the machine alter the total cook time?  When I use to grill I would eyeball it and just knew when the meat was done so I could take it off right away and not dry it out.  But setting a time and temperature on the machine means relying on the thermometer but I could hit the target IT but have cooked it too long or hot and ended up drying the meat out.  

First the ribs - each rack will not necessarily get done at the same time.  Could happen, but not likely.  The lowest rack will be exposed to the radiant heat from the element in addition to the convection heat of the cabinet.  So the lowest rack will likely be done first.  Therefore most will rotate the racks top to bottom and from front to back.  As far as drying out.  In the Bradley drying out seems to be most often from leanness of meat.  The Bradley is designed for low-n-slow, and you need the fat (and collagen).  As BLSH mentioned in another thread - you as a cook - can only control - time, temp, and ingredients.  We've already talked time and temp.  Ingredients need to be selected with a modicum of care.  An untrimmed brisket will be far trickier to keep moist, than an untrimmed one.  A pork loin is harder to keep moist than a butt.  The difference is fat and collagen - your low-n-slow friends.  Many will foil and seal up the meat after awhile in the smoker and finish the cook in foil.  That technique can help get moister meat, but like anything else, you have to know what you are doing - it can also lead to dryness if not careful.  As far as I am concerned, the most important thing to monitor is the meat IT.  That will tell you what it going on and give you a very good idea of doneness and when to remove from the smoker.  

Heh I know my questions are a little long winded but this is a big financial purchase especially in this economy and putting out 450.00 for the digital is something I want to be damn sure about.  After reading all the posts in the forums I've come to the conclusion that the DBS is slightly better constructed than the OBS and the interior is also stainless steel instead of aluminum which helps with cleaning and making sure rust doesn't form since I live in Maryland and we have a high humidity factor.  I don't want to have to constantly babysit the food while it cooks and would rather set the machine to cook for a specific length of time at a specific temperature and the DBS sounds the way to go.  The OBS from what I've read requires a great deal of tweaking to not only set a target temperature but also after the meat is placed in the machine you have to fiddle with the temperature again to make sure the machine compensates for the added volume.  Whereas the digital if you set it for 220 the machine will switch on and stay on until it reaches 220 and maintains that temp throughout the cooking process.

Don't worry about questions - we like questions.  Some of us don't have much of a life - smoking and posting!   ;D  I have a Digital and have not modified it in any way and it has served me very well.  However, if doing it again, I might consider an Original and add a PID.  Even though not a necessity with the vast majority of my smokes, I have ruined a load of sausage by overcooking.  I would like the idea of being able to ramp up the temps without frequent monitoring and fidgeting.  That set up would be similar in price to a Digital.  

[LordofTime]

I'd suggest getting the OBS and with the money you save, you can buy the Auber PID.  I have the DBS and it's not as accurate as I think it should be.  If I could start over, that's what I would do.  I think the cost works out to about the same.  I'm sure other here will back me up.  Good luck.

Do you mean this one?

http://www.auberins.com/index.php?main_page=product_info&cPath=8&products_id=72&zenid=9ad5553faa4755605de05c389eb9ebe6

[FLBentRider]

W E L C O M E  to the Forum LordofTime!

1.)  Is using the Digital model really that more accurate than just guessestimating with the Original?  I mean if I wanted to say cook something for 4 hours/smoke 2 hours at 210 degrees and set that on the machine will it maintain that temperature the full 4 hours or will it constantly fluctuate even after the initial recovery?

It does fluctuate, but it settles down. To be honest, for most things (homemade sausage and salmon are exceptions) It doesn't really matter. If you want, set your house oven on 350F and monitor it for an hour with a remote thermometer.

2.)  I hear that the machine turns off once it hits the target temperature you set it at so that the heating element constantly has to turn on and recover to maintain the target temp.  So if I wanted to cook something at 210 then I would want to set the machine at 220 so that when it kicks off it won't dip below the desired cooking temperature.

You set it where you want, if it dips it will recover.

3.)  For most purposes I won't be cooking tons and tons of meat at any given time.  At best I might throw on a 3-4 lb beef roast, brisket, pork loin, etc if I'm doing a large cut of meat.  When I'm not cooking that then I'll probably throw on some burgers, hot dogs, and ribs if we have a BBQ.  Does the machine come with instructions on what kind of meat your cooking and the lbs on say a chart that tells you how long to cook, at what temp, and how long to smoke or are those all questions the chef as to figure out?  Example:  My wife buys a nice 4 lb beef roast which she would normally put in the oven and make roast beef out of.  But it would taste a lot better if I seasoned and smoked it in the Bradley.  So for a 4lb beef roast would the manual tell me how long to cook/smoke and at what temp or do I have to figure that out myself?

We have a recipe site that has all kinds of information on using the Bradley Smoker. How long you apply smoke is a personal preference. It depends on the meat as well. Some people like a lighter smoke, 2 hours, others put 8 hours on a pork butt. The "average" for a pork butt is 4 hours.

One thing to understand is that, especially with smoking, that there is a difference between "doneness" and "tenderness". For lean and tender cuts, lets say a ribeye for example, you cook to an IT of 125F for medium rare. The ribeye is a tender cut of meat. A brisket or pork butt, on the other hand, is not. These cuts of meat have a lot of connective tissue, which is what makes them tough when cooked "hot and fast". Cooked "low and slow", however, allows the connective tissue (collegan) to be broken down into gelatin (which makes it tender and oh so good) and water (the evaporation of which slows the cooking process "the stall")

To answer your question, I not really sure there is a "chart" but ask. You'll get answers.

4.)  I have a remote meat thermometer to put inside of any meat that will tell me what the IT of the piece is so that I know when it's done but that doesn't tell you what temperature to cook at or how long which could lead to cooking too long and drying out the meat before it's reached the right target IT.  If you put in 3 trays of ribs in the machine will the cook time for one rack be consistent for all of them or will the added volume in the machine alter the total cook time?  When I use to grill I would eyeball it and just knew when the meat was done so I could take it off right away and not dry it out.  But setting a time and temperature on the machine means relying on the thermometer but I could hit the target IT but have cooked it too long or hot and ended up drying the meat out. 

The cook time will increase with the load, but not significantly - ie. not twice as long. A dual probe thermometer will tell you the smoker temp as well.

Heh I know my questions are a little long winded but this is a big financial purchase especially in this economy and putting out 450.00 for the digital is something I want to be damn sure about.  After reading all the posts in the forums I've come to the conclusion that the DBS is slightly better constructed than the OBS and the interior is also stainless steel instead of aluminum which helps with cleaning and making sure rust doesn't form since I live in Maryland and we have a high humidity factor.  I don't want to have to constantly babysit the food while it cooks and would rather set the machine to cook for a specific length of time at a specific temperature and the DBS sounds the way to go.  The OBS from what I've read requires a great deal of tweaking to not only set a target temperature but also after the meat is placed in the machine you have to fiddle with the temperature again to make sure the machine compensates for the added volume.  Whereas the digital if you set it for 220 the machine will switch on and stay on until it reaches 220 and maintains that temp throughout the cooking process.

Thanks for the time guys and if anyone answers know I am very appreciative!

I own an Original Bradley Smoker. I turned out a whole lot of good food with it without adding a PID. Having said that, I added the PID and it makes it even more "hands off"

I can tell you that I did not spend my time constantly fiddling with the slider, nor did it break. There is a 500 watt element in these smokers. It is kinda hard to get the temp too high if you have any kind of a load in it at all, really it is. Mine spent most of its time on MAX or close to it.

Where in Maryland are you? There is a member here, begolf25, that is a bradley dealer, and I bet he'd be willing to let you look at one of his in action.

[Caneyscud]

That one and the one below it has two probes. 

[LordofTime]

I live in Churchville which is North of Baltimore near the Pennsylvania line and Aberdeen Proving Ground army base.

[LordofTime]

I live in Churchville which is North of Baltimore near the Pennsylvania line and Aberdeen Proving Ground army base.

Is two probes really better in the long run?

[FLBentRider]

I live in Churchville which is North of Baltimore near the Pennsylvania line and Aberdeen Proving Ground army base.

Is two probes really better in the long run?

Yes.

yard and pool:

75 E South Street Frederick, MD 21701

[Caneyscud]

Better, - I don't know  Handier - yes!

One probe is monitoring and controlling the cabinet temp as the other one is monitoring the meat IT.  Saves the cost of a thermometer to monitor IT.

[LordofTime]

Better, - I don't know  Handier - yes!

One probe is monitoring and controlling the cabinet temp as the other one is monitoring the meat IT.  Saves the cost of a thermometer to monitor IT.

Ahhh well then I only need a single because I already have a remote IT thermometer here at home :)

[FLBentRider]

Better, - I don't know  Handier - yes!

One probe is monitoring and controlling the cabinet temp as the other one is monitoring the meat IT.  Saves the cost of a thermometer to monitor IT.

Ahhh well then I only need a single because I already have a remote IT thermometer here at home :)

It also allows you to program according to IT.

For example:

Run @225F until the IT is 190F, then run @190F (to keep warm)

[LordofTime]

Better, - I don't know  Handier - yes!

One probe is monitoring and controlling the cabinet temp as the other one is monitoring the meat IT.  Saves the cost of a thermometer to monitor IT.

Ahhh well then I only need a single because I already have a remote IT thermometer here at home :)

It also allows you to program according to IT.

For example:

Run @225F until the IT is 190F, then run @190F (to keep warm)

Ahhhh well then that is handy.  So I don't have to worry about how long to cook something because it will automatically shut off once the target IT is reached.  That is handy :)