Another lethal danger in storing Salmon.... Vacuum packing.

[NePaSmoKer]

Some of you guys that ain't been here much or are new posting this stuff are scaring the Hell outta some of the new members. I been doing this for over 30 years and yet to be sick or have someone get sick from the brine, marinade, cure, smoke or whatever.

Come on let the new smokers enjoy the hobby.

Do you believe everything church, state and the corrupt depts of our Gov tell you?

[KevinG]

Rick, I think a picture is worth a thousand words.

Exhibit "A"



3 years of vacuum packed smoked, & unsmoked venison.

[precookingsmoker]

Agreed BuyLowSellHigh.

I took a descriptive short-cut. What I read is in agreement with you. The spores can ultimately cause the toxins to occur.

What I was trying to illustrate was 2 points.....

1) We are responsible for what might occur to others when we share our vacuum sealed products with others....if they are not totally aware of intrinsic dangers and the countermeasures.

2) That the spoors which ultimately cause the toxin compounds are MORE than difficult to destroy even tho' they can be held in remission with safe practices.

3) NePaSmoker: -Being scared does help educate and cause a more careful cooking, curing & smoking practice. Whether to a "new-be" like me, or an old timer with a nearly rigid mind-set in things. The objective (in all of this) is to educate, by force or shock if necessary......what casual handling or a misunderstanding can do to ourselves and to others ultimately.

-Play it safe and burn the hell out of everything!  ;D ;D ;D  -Larry

[SoCalBuilder]

Sushi Anyone?

[KyNola]

The objective (in all of this) is to educate, by force or shock if necessary

Uh, excuse me?  I had promised myself I was going to try to stay out of this but in support of my friend NePaS whom I happen to agree with, I don't recall anyone asking you to educate us by any means necessary or in fact to educate us at all.

I totally understand this is going to go bad in a hurry but I'll be happy to stand with Rick.

[BuyLowSellHigh]

Sushi -- no, don't want all the rice (fills me up too fast).    :D

Sashimi ?  Amaebi ?  All I can stuff into my round belly.  Love it!  And I like and eat raw beef too!

Best sashimi I ever had was about 10 years ago.  Wife and I were on a dive trip in a very remote part of the middle of the Pacific.  When we motored across the lagoon we'd troll and catch small fresh Tuna off the back of the boat.  The local native crew fileted it on the spot, cut it into pieces, put in on a paper plate and handed us a tube of wasabi.  Ten minutes max, out of the water and into my mouth.  No refrigeration needed!

[NePaSmoKer]

Jeebus


Wait must be my rigid mindset......OH CRAP I'M GUNNA DIE WITH SPORES CUZ I ATE RAW BAMBI TODAY...................AHHHHHHHH ......DOH

I see allot of posting BS here with NO PHOTOS TO BACK UP

You do the smoke POST IT

Smoking talks....BS posting walks  :D

[SoCalBuilder]

BLSH - I don't eat it unless it has a least been waved over a flame. I can do ceviche, but it's really been 'cooked' by the lemon juice or whatever the acid is (and all the cerveza chases it through your system anyway). ;D ;D

[manxman]

I was going to try to stay out of this

ditto, I failed miserably KN!  ;) :D

Come on let the new smokers enjoy the hobby.

I agree.  :)

Botulism needs putting into context.There are around 150 cases in the US per year, less than 10 in the UK and of those only perhaps 25 cases in total will be foodborne. The foodborne cases are usually due to home canning and commercial sources although due to the big increase in home vacuum sealing it does cause the odd very rare case.  

The rest are normally infants (linked to honey for example) or wound botulism, quite often linked to IV drug abuse.

It is treatable if picked up early and the mortality rate is low.

So yes, we all need to be aware of the dangers but those risks are relatively easy to negate given there is so much information available nowadays about food processing and handling and the chances of actually getting botulism are very small...... virtually nil if you follow basic do's and don'ts!  :)

[BuyLowSellHigh]

So yes, we all need to be aware of the dangers but those risks are relatively easy to negate given there is so much information available nowadays about food processing and handling and the chances of actually getting botulism are very small...... nil if you follow basic do's and don'ts!

Exactly!  Enough said.

precookingsmoker, when you can show me the mastery of cooking, curing, smoking, and broad chacuterie skills, knowledge and abilities  that NePaS and the many others who frequent these forums regularly share, then I'll consider the "education" you are offering. Until then I think many of us would  appreciate it if you would confine your educational efforts to yourself.

[mybad]

Exactly!  Enough said.

precookingsmoker, when you can show me the mastery of cooking, curing, smoking, and broad chacuterie skills, knowledge and abilities  that NePaS and the many others who frequent these forums regularly share, then I'll consider the "education" you are offering. Until then I think many of us would  appreciate it if you would confine your educational efforts to yourself.

Funny your telling him he can't offer an opinion, until he meets your criteria....

[BuyLowSellHigh]

Funny your telling him he can't offer an opinion, until he meets your criteria....

I said no such thing.

[KyNola]

Funny your telling him he can't offer an opinion, until he meets your criteria....

Mybad, what you're missing is that there are masters of this craft on this forum who have been doing this for 30-40+ years and teach us all everyday. Everyday.  Not by force or shock or any means necessary, but from their many years of experience.  The topic subject is "Another lethal danger in storing salmon.... Vacuum packing".  Lethal danger?  This subject was brought up by the author on his own.  No one asked to be educated by "any means necessary".  Have you read Kummok's post on smoked salmon?  If not, it will take you a while but I urge you to do so, start to finish.  Guess all those people have been wrong all these years too.  For the record, my money's on Kummok.

One final point, insulting NePaS by referring to him as "an old timer with a nearly rigid mind-set" is absolutely nothing short of rude.  NePaS's experience and willingness to help anyone deserves way more respect than that.

My apologies to the members of the forum.  If this causes me to be "excused" from the forum, I can live with it.    

   

[precookingsmoker]

BLSH et.al.,

Fine. I have not given a seminar since 1985 and did not start one here.

Subject was a UCD information seed submitted to the forum with good intentions, only designed to alert any that might be unaware of Vacuum packaging limitations.

Though it had meaningful contribution for awhile, it has now degenerated into something personal.

Possibly during this transition something new or unknown may have been assimilated by a "hobbyist" or a "Home-Professional". If so, it was worth the while.

I am content designing my equipment to do specialized tasks and need not share further, my thoughts, discoveries, or design modifications progress.  Best wishes to you all.  -L.

[Habanero Smoker]

I was going to try to stay out of this

ditto, I failed miserably KN!  ;) :D

Come on let the new smokers enjoy the hobby.

I agree.  :)

Botulism needs putting into context.There are around 150 cases in the US per year, less than 10 in the UK and of those only perhaps 25 cases in total will be foodborne. The foodborne cases are usually due to home canning and commercial sources although due to the big increase in home vacuum sealing it does cause the odd very rare case.  

The rest are normally infants (linked to honey for example) or wound botulism, quite often linked to IV drug abuse.

It is treatable if picked up early and the mortality rate is low.

So yes, we all need to be aware of the dangers but those risks are relatively easy to negate given there is so much information available nowadays about food processing and handling and the chances of actually getting botulism are very small...... virtually nil if you follow basic do's and don'ts!  :)

Well said Manxman;

I've been smoking since the mid-70's, and learned the most important thing is proper food handling. I believe one of the major reasons that botulism is rare (as well as other food borne illnesses), is that the overwhelming majority of us are already practicing that.