Cure for Salmon & other seafoods

[RJR1876]

Hi, all smokers! I'm a newbie in smoking, and have learned a lot from this forum. I would like to smoke some salmon this weekend, but after reading all the recipes here, I found that all of them use sea-salt or kosher salt, but not curing salt. Won't botulism be a serious risk in smoking salmon or other seafoods (trout, oyster,...)? Why no one is adding nitrite into the cure? Please help as I sure don't wanna have the best salmon on sunday and find myself in hospital on monday [:D]

Thanks for the advice

[whitetailfan]

I use a nitrite cure in this recipe
<font color="red">Flatlander Salmon</font id="red">

EDIT to make the link prettier.

<font color="green">whitetailfan</font id="green">
"Nice Rack"
Lethbridge, AB

[Habanero Smoker]

You did not state if you were going to cold or hot smoke the salmon. In most cases hot smoking does not require nitrates or nitrites, because you fully cook the fish. If you handle the food properly, follow the recipes; food borne poisioning or illness is not an issue.

Even if you look at the recipe for loxs (which are cold smoked), there are no nitrates or nitrites used. The amount of salt, and the length of time you cure is enough.

[jaeger]

Welcome to the forum R!!!
If you want a ready mix of cure for salmon, check out High Mountain Salmon Brine. You could also try a half and half batch to give it a test.







<font size="4"><b>Doug</b></font id="size4">

[RJR1876]

Dear smokers, I am actually trying to cold smoke the salmon and oyster, and of course I have read and re-read the bible by Kutas, and it said that "IF IT CAN'T BE CURED, DON'T SMOKE IT". So I wonder if that's the case, why many recipes here (hot and cold smoke) have not included nitrite. I know the taste will be weird, making everything more or less like ham, bu tis there anyway to cover this "after taste"

BTW, thanks for all of your opinion.

[Habanero Smoker]

<blockquote id="quote"><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial, Helvetica" id="quote">quote:<hr height="1" noshade id="quote"><i>Originally posted by RJR1876</i>
<br />Dear smokers, I am actually trying to cold smoke the salmon and oyster, and of course I have read and re-read the bible by Kutas, and it said that "IF IT CAN'T BE CURED, DON'T SMOKE IT". So I wonder if that's the case, why many recipes here (hot and cold smoke) have not included nitrite. I know the taste will be weird, making everything more or less like ham, bu is there anyway to cover this "after taste"

BTW, thanks for all of your opinion.
<hr height="1" noshade id="quote"></blockquote id="quote"></font id="quote">
By cold smoke, you mean that you are keeping the cabinet temperature under 100 F. This method is use to preserve food without cooking; therefore a cure with nitrates/nitrites should be used to cure the meat for a specific amount of days, prior to placing in a smoker. Most of the recipes on this site are developed not to preserve food, but to add smoke flavor to the food.

I don't have any books by Kutas, who I know is an expert in curing; so I guess it is not my bible [:)]. "IF IT CAN'T BE CURED, DON'T SMOKE IT"; I'm assuming that this means you need to cure in order to smoke a product. That depends on the definition of "smoking"; what is Kutas' definition of "smoking"? The purest will say that most of the cooking done in the BS in not smoking but barbecuing, because temperatures greater then 180 F. are often used. Many of the cold smoke recipes I took a look at on this site, have a good amount of salt, and the smoking times are a few to several hours, so nitrates/nitrites do not need to be used. On the other hand there are several recipes on this site that use cures with nitrates/nitrites; such as for bacon, jerky, pastrami, turkey and serveral other meats.

If you have his book use his recipes, and judge for yourself if you like the taste of the finished product; it may not taste like ham. You can always add more sugar to a cure, that helps take the edge off the salt taste, but you don't want to over do it with the sugar, or the finished product may be too sweet for your taste.

[Arcs_n_Sparks]

Kutas' point is that you need three things for botulism: moisture, temps in the range of 40-140, and lack of oxygen. If those are likely conditions, you need to cure. As was mentioned, this could be an adequate amount of salt (since salt tends to pull moisture out, among other things). His book extensively talks about hot and cold smoking of fish, and use of salt.

Arcs_n_Sparks

[tsquared]

Botulism should not be a problem as long as you are handling your fish properly. Traditionally salted fish using salt only was used for hundreds of years prior to nitrates or refrigeration. Most people these days do not like that amount of salt in their fish as it needs freshening to be used.  If you are: keeping your fish cold prior to use,  refrigerating during your brining, and carefully drying prior to smoking--you'll be fine. The trickiest part is drying/ and glazing your fish during the summer. I've got 20 lbs of pink salmon and white king salmon in the brine right now and will be taking it out this am. I will put them on the smoker racks and put them uncovered in my beer fridge for several hours. If they haven't formed a good pellicle then I will lay them on the counter in the kitchen and put a fan on them for an hour or 2 prior to going into the smoker.I've been smoking and eating salmon and trout for 25 years with no ill effects.Well, my partner claims I've got fish on the brain, but I can live with that. Good luck and let us know how it turns out.
T2

[oguard]

I fully agree T2,most illness is caused from poor handling of fish.During the warmer months it does not take long for fish to turn bad.I too have been eating smoked salmon for years and haven't had a bad piece yet.

Mike

Catch it,Kill it,Smoke it

[tsquared]

Hi Mike--I see you did your Nootka trip. Fishing has been crazy good here in Sooke for the past week--everybody is getting their limit of springs. I'm dragging the first mate out with me tomorrow for her annual day fishing.
Tom

[JJC]

Welcome to the Forum, RJR!

I would suggest reading a couple of articles on the FAQ board that Olds has set up.

The one on Curing and Brining can be found at:
http://susan.rminor.com/forums/showthread.php?t=14

There are two on Food Hygeine and Poisoning at:
http://susan.rminor.com/forums/forumdisplay.php?f=9

I think you'll find both useful info and the answers to some of your concerns.  HTH . . .

John
Newton MA

[oguard]

T2 been pretty busy and didn't see your post.Fishing was pretty slow but still managed my limit and got 32# spring and 3 others in the 20's.The BS worked excellent made about 20# of indian candy[:p][:p].Gonna make a return trip with my dad Sept 6 to catch some coho and any lingering spring.The wife said I should go!Oh I love my wife![:D][:D][:D].Good to here the fishing has been good to you this year.

Keep on fishin' and smokin'

Mike

Catch it,Kill it,Smoke it

[tsquared]

Good for you, Oguard. I'm still chasing springs here in Sooke but we've got two cabins booked at Port Renfrew for the first weekend in October for the big coho that come in there. Last year our biggest coho that weekend was 19 1/2, previous year, 22 ! Lot's of fun...
T2

[SoupGuy]

Instacure #1 (sodium nitrite) is really not needed to hard-smoke Salmon. If you plan on COLD-Smoking fish, then it would be a good idea to use it.

Did you know... that "Pickling Salt" has impurities in it that counteracts botutulian bacteria that 'Kosher' or 'purified' salt does not?  (SPELLING SOUP! SPELLING!)

Use sodium nitrite ALWAYS when curing/smoking meat (beef, pork, wild game) and any Poultry.
Also use it for any cold-smoked product where the temp applied is below 140F.

It would also be a good idea to learn what the symptoms of botulism are....

   unexplained neck-ache
   blurred vison
   loss of appetite
   sore muscles in torso and lower extremities
   DEATH.

:)

[calatexmex]

In Kutas's book he says that to cure meat you must use cure. Quote: cure is cure, and salt is just salt. Who am I to argue with the master.

Mike C