Help Kummok

Mikey · October 19, 2005, 04:58:40 PM

Hi Kummok, I have been trying the smoked salmon thing for a while now and am generally pleased. There is only one thing thats wrong, I am getting plenty of white boogers. I think I have figured out whats wrong, I have only been leaving the fish to glaze for a couple of hours or so. I see the recipe you have on here says 12 to 36 hours until a tough hard pellicle forms. Well I left my Atlantic salmon in the fridge over night on racks and it is still very soft to the touch (I realize that atlantic salmon has a lot of fat)should I keep it in there allot longer? I knew I was doing something wrong when I saw a picture of your smoked salmon on the bradley recipe forum. Yours was a nice rich dark reddish color, and looked dryer. I hope with a little help a dryer product will result in no boogers and better color. Any thoughts?

bsolomon · October 19, 2005, 09:17:40 PM

I'm sure Kummok will answer (once he gets back into dock), but here's a shot at your questions: As to the difference in appearance, I think Kummock probably just has better salmon available to him (freshly caught) then you do. When you say Atlantic salmon, I am assuming this is the farm-raised variety, and typically, what little color there is has been added chemically. It also seems to be particluarly moist (as you noticed). It looks like you are from B.C. near Vancouver - can't you get good wild Pacific salmon there? In any case, you should still be able to use the Atlantic salmon with reasonably good results, but you will never get the color like Kummok shows (probably with some King Salmon he caught himslef). To get a good pellicle, you will probably need to do this outside of your refrigerator. The fridge tends to keep moisture in the foods, so while cold, it is not a good place for drying. Find a nice cool place, and try to set up a big fan near your racks, and that will dry them far more efficiently and get a better pellicle.

As to the white boogers, they typically form when heating the salmon too rapidly. Try to work slower/longer at the lower ends of the temperature ranges, and that should reduce this effect somewhat, although I do recall some previous threads on the subject (you can search if you like), and the consensus was that sometimes there is just not much you can do to prevent this (depending upon the fat content in the fish).

nsxbill · October 19, 2005, 10:03:50 PM

On my first attempt at Salmon, I also had a lot of boogers despite following instructions on the slow approach. It still tasted really good.

The last time I did Salmon, and I have to depend on what the catch du jour is at Sam's or Costco, I used HiMountain Brine for about 24 hrs, but because I am not big on it being too salty, only used half the amount.

I put the salmon on smoker shelves on one of SmokehouseRob/Chez Bubba racks and let a window fan blow accross for a couple of hours.

Voila, no boogers when it smoked...Just the couple of hours in front of the fan and the meat had formed a pretty good pellicle prior to smoking. Whole house smelled like Salmon for awhile when the fan was on, but that is OK.

The specific brine mix I used was "Alaska Salmon Brine Kit." I Recommend it!

Bill

There is room on earth for all God's creatures....on my plate next to the mashed potatoes.

SMOKEHOUSE ROB · October 19, 2005, 10:53:34 PM

just what bill said use a fan, then i will only use the heat from the smoke gen for the first 2 hours and vent open just a bit, then turn on your bradley to raise the heat to the next step, also what are you useing fora temp gauge ? the one built into the door or ? if you are useing the one in the door there is your problem,

Mikey · October 20, 2005, 05:06:30 AM

Hey guys, well I left the salmon in the fridge on the racks for about 17 hours and they are dryer looking with a sheen and a little sticky but not a tough coating like Kummok says. I am smoking them as I type this so I will let you know. I think the reason I'm not getting as good a color is (and I realize his salmon has a better color) but if I wasnt letting it dry enough, then when I went to smoke it and the salmon released allot of its moisture, then the smoke would not stick and give it that dark richness. Actually I live in Vancouver and have had the chance to smoke some wild sockeye and it had a fair bit of boogers as well but man was it scrump dilly man. Next time I will air dry it out of the fridge with a fan on it for a couple of hours. Thanks for the tips guys.................SMOKE ON

Mikey · October 20, 2005, 08:58:17 AM

Well I'm finished smoking the salmon and I have about 85 percent less boogers. I also got a nicer richer color on the fish as well. Now to leave it sit in the fridge over night to let the flavour settle and Ill be eating salmon like grizzly in fall.

bighoof · October 21, 2005, 02:34:18 AM

Cool, I'll have to try it longer too, always have let it dry overnight, maybe I need a tad longer.

Kummok · October 24, 2005, 03:16:27 AM

Sorry for the delay in responding Mikey. You've already received great advice ( I would expect that from my "South o' the Border" buds! [;)]). Not much I could add to what they've said and it sounds like you've about reached smoked salmon Heaven with their advice.

There's a lot to what they told you about the salmon you're using.....probably the best "looking" smoked salmon are Reds (Sockeye), being dark to begin with. Atlantic salmon is closer in color and dryness/flavor to Pink (Humpy). Most who know me know that I prefer the juicy, oildripping feeder King, but if you've ever seen the smoked white King, you'd think it was Tuna or something.....looks yucky, but tastes GREAT[:p]

Rob's SS rack, (which Chez Bubba sells) is my best friend for the drying that is sooooo important prior to smoking. I have three and I faithfully use fans on them at high speed I've also had special "screen socks" made to fit over them for keeping the bugs away from direct contact with the meat during the long drying process.....durn critters must have kevlar wings. I can't believe how strong those little buggers are....to land on the meat with the fan on high speed takes as much skill as the best 101st Airborne jumper!! [:0]

35 years of extinguishing smoking stuff and now I'm wondering WHY!
Kummok @ Homer, AK USA

psdubl07 · October 31, 2005, 05:48:47 PM

I end up with the WBs no matter how slow I smoke it. Especially where I've removed the pin bones. Maybe more drying in addition to what I already do would help.
My question though is: How long is the fish safe in the "danger zone" given the brine it was in? Is it OK to leave it out for 24 or 36 hours?

Kummok · October 31, 2005, 09:33:32 PM

I stay away from giving any advice on "Safe Food Handling".....I'm a poster boy for how NOT to do things, safety-wise[:0] when it comes to smoked salmon. It stays in the freezer or reefer until I serve/eat it. But then, I also carry it around in my pocket for a coupla days sometimes before it's gone....haven't died yet, but it likely due to the garlic, spices, peppers, and other hot stuff I eat[;)][:D] I've eaten stuff recently that was dated 03 and we're only "supposed" to keep salmon in the freezer 6 monthes according to the University Extension info I read. I'm NOT mocking their sage advice, rather justifying WHY I'm not the one to trust on "safe eating of salmon" advice! I know there's some good threads on the forum where this concern was addressed by waaaay more qualified healthy eaters than am I. Manxman...you out there?!?!?

35 years of extinguishing smoking stuff and now I'm wondering WHY!
Kummok @ Homer, AK USA

manxman · November 01, 2005, 10:19:11 AM

Hi folks,

psdubl07:

<blockquote id="quote">quote:<hr height="1" noshade id="quote"> How long is the fish safe in the "danger zone" given the brine it was in? Is it OK to leave it out for 24 or 36 hours?<hr height="1" noshade id="quote"></blockquote id="quote">

Kummock:

<blockquote id="quote">quote:<hr height="1" noshade id="quote">Manxman...you out there?!?!?<hr height="1" noshade id="quote"></blockquote id="quote">

I certainly would'nt leave fish in the "danger zone" for 24 to 36 hours, even if it had been brined.

Kummock makes a good point because to some extent many people do stretch the rules a bit and it is often a case of do as I say, not do as I do!! I stretch the rules sometimes but always within what I feel comfortably with and I personally think this is stretching things too far!

And again, as Kummocks says, it is a totally different thing when giving advice to others!!

In days gone by people cured, brined and/or smoked a lot more heavily than they do nowadays and still made every effort to keep the food they produced as cold as possible... hung in an outhouse or whatever. This is still a good example to follow!

And like psdubl07, I never manage to avoid WB's completely!!!

Manxman.

psdubl07 · November 01, 2005, 04:02:32 PM

Thanks guys, that's kinda what I figured. I know I've stretched it too in that if it dries for 3 hours, and doesn't come up to temp for another 3 in the smoker, that's technically too long. Nobody has got sick yet, but I feel like leaving it out for 24+ hours would be pushing my luck a bit...

JJC · November 12, 2005, 01:54:05 AM

I don't want to sound like a reckless fool on food safety, but I do think that properly brined fish can be left at room temp for 24-36 hours. 6 hours is absolutely fine--after all, unbrined meat has a 4 hour safety zone. The key is that the brine MUST be at least 12% salt (see Brining and Curing piece on FAQ Board for details) and should be used for at least 2 hours. At that point, the salt content in the surface layers of the fish/meat that bacteria have access to is so high that bacteria can't grow. That's why I shorten brining times rather than decrease salt content if I need to keep the meat out for a while.

Manx or others, please feel to disagree--I may be missing something here and wouldn't want to lead someone into disaster. Of course, Kummock has been doing this for a long time and by now there must be thousands of "test subjects" who haven't gotten sick . . .

John
Newton MA

Added in edit: Another important assumption is that the meat/fish is not cut after it is brined. Once a fresh unbrined surface is present, the 4 hour rule goes into effect . . .

tsquared · November 12, 2005, 03:17:44 AM

Hey JJC--good to see you're still around. I was wondering where you'd gotten to.
T2

Kummok · November 18, 2005, 03:49:40 PM

<blockquote id="quote">quote:<hr height="1" noshade id="quote">Originally posted by JJC
..... Of course, Kummock has been doing this for a long time and by now there must be thousands of "test subjects" who haven't gotten sick . . .<hr height="1" noshade id="quote"></blockquote id="quote">

Hey John!! Important edit on the "no cutting after brining" ThanX!

I almost hesitate to post this info, but I'll just state that it is simply MY OWN experience, along with the caveat, "Don't do this at home!"

Last week, I had found some "already brined" salmon in vac packs, mixed in with some King I'd been saving in the freezer for a later smoke. I had brined it previously in a big batch back in Fall/03 and it was the remainder when I had filled my 16 racks to capacity. I figured, "what-the-hey, it's been brined AND frozen in vac sealed bags", so I threw it in the smoker last Friday before heading down to America.

It looked great during pellicle forming stage and came out of the Bradley looking even better. I cautiously inhaled a piece, then another, and another. That was a week ago, and I suspect that I should be dead by now (I'm in So California, so maybe I AM and went down instead of up!?!? [:0] )

Again, I'm not posting this to show disrespect for food safety. I don't want to wear out my Protecting Angels, since thay've gotten me through a childhood of guns, horses, motorcycles, 35 years of firefighting, open heart surgery, and too many "exhibition of speed contests" than I can remember. I have promised myself to NOT let meat go that long anymore! I am just continually amazed that salmon is so forgiving and tastes so darn GREAT, no matter how much I abuse it. [:p][:p]

35 years of extinguishing smoking stuff and now I'm wondering WHY!
Kummok @ Homer, AK USA