jerky 101

[nodak]

diddo car54, just mad at myself for getting burned.

Unfortunatly as Rodney King said:
"Can't we all just get along".

"If you're not living on the edge, You're taking up way too much room, so get the he-- out of my way."

[JJC]

Hi All,

Before we end up with regular Forum members getting pissed off at each other, I would like to offer the following perspective on the situation . . .

I initially thought jerkyg was OK--very knowledgeable about jerky and willing to help us out as long as he didn't have to give up anything proprietary, which is perfectly reasonable.  When TomG and Iceman  appeared to doubt his motives, I was among those who thought it was uncalled for.  jerkyg sent me an unsolicited email, the text of which follows:

"Howdy John,

You can read my most recent...and last reply to the forum...under the thread, "High Mountain Jerkey". (http://bradleysmoker.com/forum/topic.asp?TOPIC_ID=2561&whichpage=2).

I appreciate your comments and interest, but I will no longer "share" on a forum that has such petty contributors who have positioned themselves as the gatekeepers of this forum.  I gave a gift and it met with disdain and ignorance.  I have better use of my time.

Best of luck and warm jerky regards,

Jon Beltran
The Jerky Guy Co."

I responded with an e-mail (unfortunately deleted or I would be happy to share it with you all) that said I hoped he would stay on the Forum, that I disagreed with TomG and Iceman's assessment of his motives and attitudes, and that suggested he should look at his own words and realize how someone who doesn't know him might think the words were arrogant even if they weren't.  I predicted to him that the prevailing sentiment on the Forum would be for him to keep contributing.

I never received a response from him, but that evening when I went on the Forum, there were several e-mails supporting jerkyg as well as a truly classy e-mail from TomG apologizing to him. I sent another e-mail to jerkyg urging him to look at the Forum, but did not receive a reply to this e-mail, either. However, when jerkyg began posting again, I initially thought everything was squared away.

However, after reading jerkyg's posts again very carefully and as objectively as I can, I can only conclude that he is some combination of arrogant, conceited, self-centered, selfish, greedy, combative, or angry.  Yes, angry . . . sorry, Jon--your comment about being so laid-back that if you were any calmer you would be comatose suggests to me that you harbor a degree of self-delusion that would greatly benefit from some counseling to help you get in touch with your real inner self, which is far from calm!  Your hubris may take you far in the retail world, but it is not welcome nor productive for the folks on this Forum, IMHO.

At the very least, jerkyg's personality traits are such that he could never be a sharing, fully-contributing member of the forum because he thinks his life experience = $$$$, even the experiences that are far from creative or unique to him.  After all, one need only go to the Brining and Curing or Food Safety articles on Olds' board to get the info and website URL that he so condescendingly and pompously provides to us even though, according to him, "I charge thousands of dollars for "giving" the answers".  Well, if people are stupid enough to pay thousands of $$ for something that they can get for free, let econonic Darwinism take its natural course . . . Manx and I are scientists by profession, but we offer our expertise to this group for zip.  Many, many others on this forum are expert cooks, engineers, computer gurus, etc and all of us are part of this board because we are willing to share our experience--a word derived from the same root as expertise--with each other so that we gain from the total experience of the group.  It's a form of bartering, really, and jerkyg would never understand that or be able to participate in that since he is so self-focused.

So, I think we should rue the fact that his experience will not be available to us, but be thankful that he has voluntarily withdrawn from the Forum.  Nobody--no matter how much they might have to offer to the group--is worth suffering if they have personalities like jerkyg.

My $.02 . . .

Chez, I would respectfully suggest that you lock this thread to prevent jerkyg from causing any more problems.

John
Newton MA

[liquid25]

So...how is everyone?

cnelles - not sure why your jerky wasn't drying. Sounds to me like the vent wasn't open during the "drying process".

TomG - read those great articles in the links that jerkyg posted. Understand that there are a few steps that need to be taken to make jerky safe. Among other things, there is a heating process and a drying process. I think most people go straight for the drying process (vent open) not knowing any better.

So, jerky makers, we have received some very valuable information here, maybe not in the tone that we are used to.

Thanks to everyone who contributed to this thread.

[TomG]

I think Chris(cnelles) is a troublemaker and should be banned from the Forum![:D] Rob, I did read the articles and even understood them.  In my other life I had to read biologically oriented journal articles fairly often, and even wrote a few.  You may be familiar with one of my first efforts; "Preserving innervation in the surgically isolated rat stomach preparation"?  Come to think of it, that may have been my last effort, but I'm sure I can find you a signed reprint if you're interested.

For me, one of the most pertinent sections of the required reading was the review: (http://www.aamp.com/regulatory/documents/CSU-EffectsofPreparation_000.pdf)
which specifically addresses the home dried jerky safety problem.  The crux seems to be the old cost/benefit, safety/quality issue.  Consumer acceptability with various predrying treatments was only 3.7-3.9 on a scale of 0-7 where 7 was extremely acceptable.  I think very few of us would go to all the time and trouble needed to get a smoked product that rates a 3.8 on a scale of 7. Life is short and there are some risks I'm willing to take for a gratifying culinary experience.  The other concern, except for damper venting, is the practicality of wet heat control in the BS. With a PID controller, wireless meat thermometer, generator timer, and extra heating element my deck is already starting to look like a Rube Goldberg nightmare.
I am guilty of gently gigging the posters about controlling the damper.  Since there is very little in the owner's manual, I was hoping to get some practical advise for both Chris and myself on how and when to use it to adjust smoke density, temperature, and humidity.

John, thanks for putting the thread back into perspective. You are the Zen Master of Smoke![8D]

[JJC]

Wow, I've never been called a Zen Master before (lots of other things, but never a ZM) . . .



John
Newton MA

[jerkyg]

Just got home after another out of town trip.  I was very disappointed by the responses to my last post.  A couple of them made it seem mandatory...if I didn't respond to their email, I was the Anti-Christ.  Shame on me!  Another reminded me of a socialist/communist country...if you don't like what someone says...ban them/shut the up!!!  Very, very impressive!

Car54 is one of the few that realizes what I have been saying all along.  Research...research!!!!!  It's like when you asked your mom how to spell a word.  She would always say..."look it up!"

After reading most of the posts...I must apologize.  I posted my "tips" and links because I assumed that the majority of you were as passionate as I am regarding jerky.  

I stand corrected...I was wrong. 99% of you are only here as a hobby.  Something to do on your off-time.  What I now realize, is most of you want someone to simply hand you the answer.  

The adjectives used to describe me prove my point.  Keyboard warriors who will never, ever understand what I posted.  You will simply keep sharing recipes and methods that if you googled...you would find them everywhere on the web.  But, you would never find what I shared on this forum, anywhere else.

It is intersting that "someone" stated that I am angry!  I will quote my 9 year old daughter when she hears something that is beneath her or totally wrong...."just pitifull!"  To think that I have been angered by anyone here...please refer back to "just pitifull".

Again...I apologize to all, for my taking the time to try to take y'all to a level that most will never experience in making jerky.  Your ignorance and simplistic attacks are a sad reflection on this forum.  At the very least, I have never hid my identity, nor my sharing of information that no one else has ever done for you before.

Be proud and bask in your duplicity and ignorance.

Jon Beltran
The Jerky Guy Co.

[Habanero Smoker]

Lately I have had not much time to contribute to this forum, and lengthy responses are almost impossible for me.

So I need to thank JJC (John) for his assessment of jerkyg. You are right on. Your $0.02 is worth a million dollars to me!

[nodak]

We all know our feelings on this even those of us who originally stuck up for jerkyg than were proven wrong by his words/actions.

I got a lot places I could go with this one, But my mom(rest her soul) told me if you can't say anything nice to say nothing at all.

Please let this be the last post on this, we don't need to bring ourselves down to other peoples level or degrade this website because of one persons actions/words.

I am pretty new to all this and am grateful to all the people willing to give me their Experience.  We can all be road scholars, but it's the experience that gets the jobs done.  All is great in theory, but how does it work in the real imperfect world we live in.  Give me a guy that's been there and done it and I'll hire him over a straight A student that only knows what the book says.  Yes we need to know the book, but it takes more than that, and my opinion this is all about the experience.  Or we would all only eat well done steaks[}:)].

"If you're not living on the edge, You're taking up way too much room, so get the he-- out of my way."

[Phone Guy]

nodak,
You can't have the last word...
Word[;)]

PG

[asa]

Can anyone tell me where are the articles referenced by jerkyg as well as his earlier posts? Or have they been deleted?

On a related topic, I'm still having trouble using the search engine here. I'm interested in trying jerky, but can't get the search to focus in on that topic. (also tried to get all of jerkyg's posts to see what all the hoorah was about, but find you can't do that by typing in just a poster's handle - or am I still doing something wrong?)

Thanks,
     Art

[TomG]

Hey Art, try this for starters   http://www.aamp.com/regulatory/documents/CSU-EffectsofPreparation_000.pdf)

Now that was an entertaining thread :D :D :D

[asa]

Hey Art, try this for starters   http://www.aamp.com/regulatory/documents/CSU-EffectsofPreparation_000.pdf)
Now that was an entertaining thread :D :D :D

Thanks very much Tom. I actually found that one this morning and scanned it, but didn't see anything about the smoking process and what that brings to preservation. And it appears you're right about the thread being entertaining - I'm just missing some of the jucier parts since they seem to have been erased by the original poster. On the other hand, that kind of entertainment I really don't need - just the info would be nice.

Regards,
     Art

[Habanero Smoker]

Can anyone tell me where are the articles referenced by jerkyg as well as his earlier posts? Or have they been deleted?

On a related topic, I'm still having trouble using the search engine here. I'm interested in trying jerky, but can't get the search to focus in on that topic. (also tried to get all of jerkyg's posts to see what all the hoorah was about, but find you can't do that by typing in just a poster's handle - or am I still doing something wrong?)

Thanks,
     Art

If you are looking for a post by a specific member, click on the member tab, find the member you are looking for jerkyg, then click on his user name. When his profile comes up scroll down to the bottom of the page and click on "Show the lasts posts of this person", and you should be able to find what you are looking for. Especially in this case; jerkyg only has 12 posts.

[TomG]

- just the info would be nice.

Art,  unlike heat, humidity,and pretreating with known concentrations of salt solutions, the affect of smoke on bacteria colony counts might be difficult to quantitate.  Please share if you find anything.

[Habanero Smoker]

Smoke is a very good antimicrobial. While brining and curing protects the interior of a meat product, the addition of smoking protects the surface from any growth of bacteria. So smoking a product will extend the storage.