Is A PID needed to make summer sausage in the DBS?

[Docbar]

I am new to the bradley smoking world.  I have a 6-rack DBS and would like to try making summer sausage.  I do not have the auber pid.  Can I make summer sausage without it?

I plan on just trying about 2 1/2lbs of HM ss and venison ss from sausage makers (some with fermento and some with out). How long can I leave them in the fridge prior to smoking?

[NePaSmoKer]

I am new to the bradley smoking world.  I have a 6-rack DBS and would like to try making summer sausage.  I do not have the auber pid.  Can I make summer sausage without it?

I plan on just trying about 2 1/2lbs of HM ss and venison ss from sausage makers (some with fermento and some with out). How long can I leave them in the fridge prior to smoking?

Not really needed but it does come in handy.

[Docbar]

After the ss is refrigerated for a couple days with the fermento, does it still need to be put in the smoker or oven at 90-120 degrees for at least 4 hours to activate the fermentation process?  If I do this, would it replace the step of putting in the smoker at 120-130 degrees for 1 hour prior to applying smoke to dry it?

[anderson5420]

I have an OBS, not a BDS,and a Ranco ETC 111000-000 controller, not an Auber PID, but an ACCURATE temperature controller was certainly the best purchase I ever made for this hobby.  Highly recommended.  So, how accurate is the temperature controller in the BDS?

On the Fermento, Ruhlman and Polcyn say Fermento is simply a flavoring agent and does not actually cause fermentation. Habanero Smoker disputes this, based on some experiments.  In any event, if you put dextrose into the meat and leave it in a warm environment,  something is going to ferment, whether it is the Fermento or just stray bacteria. Might as well try.  I am going to in the not too distant future - I have one or two other things that She Who Must Be Obeyed wants me to make before the summer sausage!

[Keymaster]

I have an OBS, not a BDS,and a Ranco ETC 111000-000 controller, not an Auber PID, but an ACCURATE temperature controller was certainly the best purchase I ever made for this hobby.  Highly recommended.  So, how accurate is the temperature controller in the BDS?

On the Fermento, Ruhlman and Polcyn say Fermento is simply a flavoring agent and does not actually cause fermentation. Habanero Smoker disputes this, based on some experiments.  In any event, if you put dextrose into the meat and leave it in a warm environment,  something is going to ferment, whether it is the Fermento or just stray bacteria. Might as well try.  I am going to in the not too distant future - I have one or two other things that She Who Must Be Obeyed wants me to make before the summer sausage!

Pat I would read this before you attempt to make your salami. I think fermento is just powdered buttermilk in the dry form. I could be wrong 8)

http://www.wedlinydomowe.com/sausage-types/fermented-sausage

[NePaSmoKer]

I have an OBS, not a BDS,and a Ranco ETC 111000-000 controller, not an Auber PID, but an ACCURATE temperature controller was certainly the best purchase I ever made for this hobby.  Highly recommended.  So, how accurate is the temperature controller in the BDS?

On the Fermento, Ruhlman and Polcyn say Fermento is simply a flavoring agent and does not actually cause fermentation. Habanero Smoker disputes this, based on some experiments.  In any event, if you put dextrose into the meat and leave it in a warm environment,  something is going to ferment, whether it is the Fermento or just stray bacteria. Might as well try.  I am going to in the not too distant future - I have one or two other things that She Who Must Be Obeyed wants me to make before the summer sausage!

Pat I would read this before you attempt to make your salami. I think fermento is just powdered buttermilk in the dry form. I could be wrong 8)

http://www.wedlinydomowe.com/sausage-types/fermented-sausage

No you are right.

[watchdog56]

I have a 6 rack digital and have found the temp swings are +/- 15 degree which when you don't want the temps to get over 180 because of a possible fat out in your sausage it is hard to control temps this way. With a PID you can keep your temp +/- 2 degree,giving you much more control.In my experience ( and it has only been a couple of years) I think a PID is the only way to go.

[anderson5420]

So, if I follow along correctly (and I did just read that lengthy tome on fermented sausages, thanks), Keymaster and NePaSmoker agree with Ruhlman and Polcyn, that Fermento is simply a flavoring agent, and hence, disagree with Habs, who thinks it contains some live cultures and actually ferments?

I am very familiar with fermented salami, using Bactoferm FRM-52 for my Tuscan dry salami, and with curing and drying generally with coppa and lonzino (cured and air dried loin).  Before Bactoferm, of course, fermented sausage was made with whatever wild bacteria happened to get into the meat, so it was probably pretty inconsistent, until they started backslopping from a particularly good batch.

Guess I will just stick with trying Fermento as a flavoring agent, and use Bactoferm when I want a real fermented sausage!

[Keymaster]

I was just concerned that if someone was to use fermento as a fermenting culture that it would not ferment the meat in the time period needed and cause spoilage of the meat in dry salami. I don't disagree with habs that fermento has live cultures in it, just not the right kind for the initial fermenting of dry salami. 

[Habanero Smoker]

anderson5420;

Like I said in another  post, do you own petri test.

You are generalizing what I said. The discussion we had on this board was not about dry curing or making fermented sausage, it was about semi-dry sausage which fermento is widely used for. It was not about fermented sausages, and my answer was specific to semi-dry, and the salami you were making was semi-dry. I was not stating that fermento can replace a starter culture, the conversation was increasing the tanginess of semi-dry sausages with fermento, because it was dry cultured powder milk that still had some live culture in it, and that some members have had success holding their semi-dry sausage made with fermento at around 100?F to increase it's tanginess.

Though I am realtively new at it, I have been dry curing meats and making fermented sausages for over three years, and I'm very familiar with the various starter cultures. One thing I have learned; the problem with relying on bacteria that is in the environment, you may introduce bacteria that have an off flavor, or there may not be enough bacteria to bring the pH of your sausage down, and the sausage become susceptible to spoilage..

[anderson5420]

Right, my original question was whether Fermento was only a flavoring agent or actually caused a fermentation. My question there was specific to semi-dry sausages.  Kutas talks about getting the traditional "tangy" flavor in semi-dry sausage by using Fermento, which I assume is in lieu of some kind of fermentation. If you did not use Fermento, I assume you would still need some kind of fermentation in semi-dry sausages, otherwise it does not seem they would really be in a different category from smoked and cooked sausages.  I have zero experience with semi-dry sausages, and was trying to consolidate my understanding a bit. I will probaby not do a Petri experiment with Fermento!

[NePaSmoKer]

Right, my original question was whether Fermento was only a flavoring agent or actually caused a fermentation. My question there was specific to semi-dry sausages.  Kutas talks about getting the traditional "tangy" flavor in semi-dry sausage by using Fermento, which I assume is in lieu of some kind of fermentation. If you did not use Fermento, I assume you would still need some kind of fermentation in semi-dry sausages, otherwise it does not seem they would really be in a different category from smoked and cooked sausages.  I have zero experience with semi-dry sausages, and was trying to consolidate my understanding a bit. I will probaby not do a Petri experiment with Fermento!

To gain a stronger tang from fermento you will need a longer and lower smoke time.

My last batch was 5 lbs at 155* for 19 hours. The tang i achieved was stronger VS just the normal times. If you wanting a more intense tang you will need to use ECA or a frozen Lactic Acid starter culture, which you mix with warm water then add to the meat.

Note that if you use powdered CA (like you can but in the canning section) it will start to work immediately and if not used in the right amounts it will make mush from your meat.

This is allot easier than lab experiments and rocket science  :o

[JZ]

 I was thinking about trying my hand at making some sausage but after reading this post I am thinking I would have to be some kind of rocket scientist to understand the process. I thought it would be simple -- you know grind the meat, mix in some spices, stuff into some casing and smoke ---- then sit back with a cold one and enjoy.

Also thinking about the temp control issue. Is it important the the temp in the cab is maintained at less than 180* or the temp in the sausage?

[Habanero Smoker]

I was thinking about trying my hand at making some sausage but after reading this post I am thinking I would have to be some kind of rocket scientist to understand the process. I thought it would be simple -- you know grind the meat, mix in some spices, stuff into some casing and smoke ---- then sit back with a cold one and enjoy.

Semi-dry summer sausage is simple; sausage making in general is simple. Just follow a reliable recipe, there are many on this board, and a few on the recipe site.

[JZ]

Thanks Hab's ----  I am going for it. Heading into the City today to get supplies and will pick up a grinder and sausage making stuff while I am there.