Added second heating element - question . . .

[fishrman]

Just completed the installation of a second heating element into my BDS following Mike's directions here http://www.susanminor.org/forums/showthread.php?572-Additional-Heating-Element-Modification&p=910#post910.  First off, thanks Mike for such a good tutorial.  The whole installation only took about 2 hours and went smoothly with your instructions and photos. 

As was shown in those instructions, the new heating element glows a bright orange but the old one appears very dark (darker than the photo in the instructions).  I figured that because he had used it soooo much, Mike's original element had a ton of hours on it, a lot of discoloration and thus was muted in color.  My element, however, was fired up for the first time just about a month and a half ago and, while it has gotten a fair amount of use since then, is still quite young.  I don't even detect a faint orange glow in it after the mod.  I have to admit that I never looked at the old element before the mod to see how brightly it was glowing, which would have provided a baseline, but at this point I don't know how efficiently that original element is actually working.  That all being said, the BDS with the mod and with no load heats up to 140F in just a few minutes in an ambient temp of about 47F.

The question:  I installed the new element with 14 gauge high temp wire.  The old element looks to have a much smaller gauge wire (working from memory here) so is it likely that the current is following the path of least resistance (the larger wire) and providing more juice to the new element and thus the much brighter glow?  Has anyone done the mod to add the second element AND replaced the wiring for the original element with new 14 gauge high temp wire at the same time?  If so, do the elements appear to be more balanced in output?

I'm no electrician, and a little knowledge (as we all know) is a dangerous thing, so putting it out for discussion amongst the experts. 

[Habanero Smoker]

When I did my mod I installed 2 new elements. The reason I changed the old element, was because the older models came with a glass element. At the time I was doing the mod Bradley switched to the metal elements.

I'm not sure if I had mentioned it in my write up, but from day one the second element (the one towards the front) glowed much brighter than the element that was installed in the original position. Though it wasn't as bright is still glowed. When the cabinet got up to the set temperature, and my DigiQ was maintaining a set temperature, the element that is in the original position, barely glowed at all.

I still had the original element hooked up to the temperature controller, and thought that may be causing the difference in performance. Since you have the digital, I have to rethink this.

[Mr Walleye]

Interesting question Fishrman.

I'm definitely not an electrician but I will throw in my 2 cents. 

I believe the original wiring is 16 gauge. There are lots of things that influence the maximum capacity of a given wire such as what it's made of, solid conductor vs stranded, and length of run to name a few. In addition the recommended load for a circuit is 80% of it's capacity. Having said that a typical 16 gauge wire is rated at 13 amps. A 14 gauge wire is rated at 15 amps. One 500 watt element at 120 volts draws approximately 4.166 amps. Based on this I don't see how the original wiring would be creating any kind of bottle neck in the circuit, even taking the 80% factor into account. I do know that my front element was definitely brighter which brings me two thoughts. One is, brighter doesn't necessarily mean hotter. Second is, I wonder if it is some what of an optical illusion. You know, the front element is bright so it affects your vision of the 2nd element.

As I said, I'm not an electrician and I really don't have the answer but I do know that 2 elements work better than one. 

Mike

[Habanero Smoker]

The optical illusion theory may have something to it. Maybe some early morning, or evening I'll try to view the elements from different angles. Maybe I'll see some changes from different viewing angles.

[easyridinole]

I have a four rack digital and I also did the same mod. When I fired it up I noticed the same thing. It seemed like the front (new one) was much brighter. The older one in the back seemed to only be hot in about the center 3 to 4 inches while the new one was bright orange along the whole distance. I also used 14ga high temp wire.

Ole

[drunknimortal]

You cant go by looks, hook an amp probe to each element that will tell you how its working.

[bekhardt]

These elements wear out quickly enough the difference in age could account for the difference in glow.  Were both your front and back elements brand new, or was the back one your old element? 

My elements have only been lasting me about a year.  I don't know if others have had better luck.  Today my little element couldn't get up past 110 degrees for over an hour once I put five pounds of sausage in it.  I had to give up and finish them in my oven.  My next element (my 3rd) is on order and should be here soon. 

I want to do the dual element mod on my OBS, but I fear I'll have to get another new element to do it with.  I don't think my present element can put out enough heat even to be my 2nd element.

[Habanero Smoker]

My elements are almost 3 years old. From what I have read, the elements don't appear to burn out slowly, but go out like an incandesent bulb. If the metal ones are the same as the old glass ones, inside the housing is a coiled wire. Similiar to what you see in a coil heater.

I have to say again, both of mine were brand new when I made the modification. And from the first day there was a noticable difference in the glow between the two.

[mikecorn.1]

Ive also had my element for three years. No poblems.


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[Mr Walleye]

Habs is correct. They either work or they don't.

The element is like Habs indicated with a wire or coiled wire in the protective sheath. The sheath is filled with a compound to protect the wire. They are like a light bulb, they work or they don't. I'm sure over time and the application of heat, the compound used in the sheath to protect the wire changes color and this is probably what you see in the brightness difference.

I copied this from another thread I posted.

The first picture is current and I just took it a week ago or so. As you can see the elements are about the same brightness. This of course is several years later after installing the 2nd element. The 2nd picture is when I first came up with adding the 2nd element. In it, the front element was new and the rear was a couple of years old. You can clearly see the difference in brightness of the element but there is absolutley no difference in the heat output of the element.

Incidentally, That rear element is 6 years old and still running fine. I've never had an element failure.








Mike

[STLstyle]

Where's the best place to buy a 500w element online?

[fishrman]

Suggest Yard and Pool.  Go here:  http://www.yardandpool.com/Bradley-Smoker-Replacement-Heating-Element-p/btheat.htm

[mikecorn.1]

Ditto !!


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[STLstyle]

Got it ordered from Yard and Pool!  Thanks! 

One more question:
How about a good place to order the small fan online I'm seeing on the forum?  I found a good link for mounting instructions, but no reference of where to get one.  I guess I'm looking for a proven model number that's small but effective.

Also, is lower center the best place to mount?  I've seen on the top left as well?  Any opinions here?

[Toker]

http://smokeandstuff.com/index.php/products/complete-fan-kit