what did i do wrong

[dtjim]

i just smoked some sockeye using granny gutzs recipe. I followed the recipe exactly except i couldnt find mapeline so i used two 1 ounce bottles of mccormick imitation maple. I brined for 19 hours and the filets were about an inch thick. I cut them into 3 or 4 inch pieces and sliced those pieces in the middle down to the skin. I did rinse the brine. It came out so salty i almost didnt eat it. It was so salty i woke up in the middle of the night and chugged 4 bottles of water. That was $30 worth of salmon so i dont wanna do that again, what did i do wrong. Everything i read says a 15% solution of salt=2 cups per gallon and  6-12 hrs brining per 1/2 inch of fish. I still have a bunch of unused brine i was going to use for steelhead. Any ideas

Not to knock your recipe, Marty, but it seems to me you left out a few items. here is a recipe we have been using for over 30 years.
Granny GutZ Smoked Fish Recipe
(Family Secret)
In a 5 gallon bucket -
1 Gallon warm water
2 Cups salt (I use morton's table salt)
2 Cups Brown Sugar
4 Tablespoons garlic powder
8 Tablespoons onion powder
2 ounce bottle of mapeline
1 1/2 cups Karo Corn Syrup

Mix it all real good. Add trimmed filets. I like to cut fish to skin (not through) in 1 1/2 - 2 inch strips. (brine gets in better, smokes better). This is enough brine for a 5 rack Big Chief Smoker. Let brine 6 to 12 hours. Dry on paper towels for at least an hour. Brush with honey if you like. Pepper heavily with crushed or cracked Black Pepper. Preheat smoker 1 hour. Smoke fish 6 to 12 hours or until completely done. Smoking time varies depending on wind and weather. On some occaisions I have finished off in the oven at 200 degrees.

GutZ

That's where we worked it out. Catchin Rainbows out of Potholes Canal and Moses Lake.

Benny Black pointed out that I told him brine time was 24 hours. That is probably more like the truth, say 12 to 24.

The last few batches that I have done, I have thinly sliced the fillets prior to brining and smoked the  out of them. Lots more work but very, very good. I have been using quite a lot of cayenne as well.

--------------------
It's good to have friends.
It's better to have friends with boats!
**GutZ**

[manxman]

I brined for 19 hours

Brining times seem long to me, I would even question the 6-12 hours in the original Granny Gutz instructions for the size of fillet and strength of brine involved. Perhaps try cutting the brine back to one cup salt? Soak fillets for a while post brining rather than just rinse?

As an aside is Mortin table salt iodized? I would make sure to use non-iodised salt if it is. (not seen Mortin's anything on this side of the pond!  ::) but most table salt we get is iodized)

[viper125]

Brine sounds ok. But for one inch thick fish I brine 5-7 hours and if thiner then one inch even shorter time.

[dtjim]

i did use non iodized salt, im gonna try using some of the leftover brine on a couple trout i just caught but only brine for 3 hrs and see how it is

[pmmpete]

If your smoked fish is too salty, you left it in the brine too long.  Experiment with shorter brining times, keeping in mind that the thinner and leaner (non-oily) the pieces of fish are and the stronger the concentration of the brine, the less time you'll need to brine the fish.  Skinned fillets require less brine time.

A good article on proper smoking techniques is Smoking Fish at Home - Safely, Pacific Northwest Extension Publication 238.  You can get this article from various sources by Googling the title.  The article has this to say about brining fish in preparation for smoking it:

"Salt preserves smoked fish by reducing the moisture content.  However, without chemical analysis, it is hard to be certain that a fish has absorbed enough salt.  That is why proper cooking [i.e. hot smoking] and refrigerated storage are essential for safety.  The following rules of thumb are useful to approximate the proper salt level for smoked fish."

"Salt the fish before smoking in a strong salt solution (brine).  Salting fish in a brine that is 1 part table salt (non-iodized and with no anticaking agent) to 7 parts water by volume for 1 hour will work in most cases.  For instance, 1 cup of salt with 7 cups of water will salt 2-3 pounds of fish.  (This proportion will read approximately 60 degrees SAL on the scale of a salometer.  By weight, this formulation would be 1.57 pounds of salt per gallon of water.)  A salometer is an instrument that can be purchased from a scientific supply store or a salt manufacturer for measuring the salt concentration of a brine."

"A gutted herring requires about 30 minutes brine time in a refrigerator; large or oily fish (e.g. 2-3 inch chunks or steaks from a 30-pound salmon) require about 2 hours.  Decrease the brine time for low fat and skinned fish.  When experimenting with brining time, start with 15 minutes per half inch of fish thickness.  Fish pieces should not overlap when they are being brined or salt uptake will not be uniform.  A smoked fish with a definite - but not unpleasantly high - salt flavor probably has absorbed enough salt.  Dry salting techniques are acceptable, and the same general rules apply.  However, using a brining solution typically yields a more uniform salt concentration."

"Many recipes call for brines with a lower salt concentration than the 1 part table salt to 7 parts water noted above - but for 18-24 hours.  These extended periods offer more opportunity for bacterial growth and possible spoilage later, and probably increase the mess you have to clean up later.  For more information on making salt brines, refer to the Oregon Sea Grant publication ORESU-H-99-002, which is available at http://seagrant.oregonstate.edu/sgpubs/onlinepubs/h9902.pdf." [A more precise web page address is http://seagrant.oregonstate.edu/sgpubs/prep-salt-brines ]

[Habanero Smoker]

i did use non iodized salt, im gonna try using some of the leftover brine on a couple trout i just caught but only brine for 3 hrs and see how it is

When you say left over brine, is that brine you did not use or are you talking about reusing the same brine. Reusing brine is not safe. The salinity will be much lower, and it may not be effective protecting the fish from food borne bacteria. Also since the salinity is lower the results will be different.

Looking at the brine I agree with Manxman. That is a lot of salt; about 1.25 pounds.

[viper125]

Well guess it is a little strong. Hab I was always taught 2-2-2 what do you think of that? 2 gal water,2cups salt and 2 cups of sugar usually brown and spices.

[Habanero Smoker]

It depends on what I am brining, and what I want for the end result; such as flavor or curing. So I will vary the amount of salt. 2-2-2 or 1-1-1 is a good basic brine, but I feel timing is just as important as the salinity.

[dtjim]

thanks for all the good info please keep it coming there is alot of misleading info out there. no im not reusing any i made a gallon and only used half of it. I just bought a small piece of salmon so i could experiment with it and have a couple fresh trout filets i just caught. Im going to use the leftover brine. Last time i brined for 19 hrs, i was thinking of brining for 8 or 10 hrs this time for the salmon and 3 hrs for the trout..... any thoughts

[pmmpete]

Well guess it is a little strong. Hab I was always taught 2-2-2 what do you think of that? 2 gal water,2cups salt and 2 cups of sugar usually brown and spices.

Viper125, with respect to your 2-2-2 brine formula, there are 32 cups of water in 2 gallons of water, so 2 cups of salt in 32 cups of water is only a 1:16 ratio, which is considerably less salty than the 1:7 salt to water ratio which is recommended by the authors of the Smoking Fish at Home - Safely article. 

Dtjim, your recipe calls for 2 cups of salt in one gallon (16 cups) of water, which is a 1:8 salt to water ratio, which is very close to the 1:7 salt to water ratio recommended by the authors of the Smoking Fish at Home - Safely article.  So I suggest that you stick with your recipe, but leave the fish in the brine for a considerably shorter time.  Experiment and see what you like.  I don't know how thick your Salmon fillets are, but I'd start with 3 hours on the Salmon.  Are the trout whole trout with the skin on, filleted trout with the skin on, or filleted trout with the skin off?  In general, I'd leave non-oily trout like rainbow trout in the brine for a shorter time than salmon.  The oiliness of Lake Trout seems to depend on what they have been eating.   

[iceman]

Way to long in the brine. At that ratio 1/3 of the time would have been just about right.
I'm just say'n  ;)

[viper125]

Well guess it is a little strong. Hab I was always taught 2-2-2 what do you think of that? 2 gal water,2cups salt and 2 cups of sugar usually brown and spices.

Viper125, there are 32 cups of water in 2 gallons of water, so 2 cups of salt in 32 cups of water is only a 1:16 ratio, which is considerably less salty than the 1:7 salt to water ratio which is recommended by the authors of the Smoking Fish at Home - Safely article. 

Dtjim, your recipe calls for 2 cups of salt in one gallon (16 cups) of water, which is a 1:8 salt to water ratio, which is very close to the 1:7 salt to water ratio recommended by the authors of the Smoking Fish at Home - Safely article.  So I suggest that you stick with your recipe, but leave the fish in the brine for a considerably shorter time.  Experiment and see what you like.  I don't know how thick your Salmon fillets and your trout or trout fillets are, but I'd start with 3 hours on the Salmon, and less on the trout, particularly since the trout aren't oily like the salmon.

Well at one time it probably was right. but that's a a lot of salt. Mostly a flavoring instead of a cure these days. Ask that question of different people and they'll all have a different response. My buddy has smoked fish for at least 40 years with the 2-2-2 recipe. Its not so  much how much brine there is but the length of time in the brine. Here is a link with some good info he gave me a while back.
http://www.uaf.edu/files/ces/publications-db/catalog/hec/FNH-00325.pdf

[pmmpete]

Viper125, that article you recommended, Smoking Fish at Home by Chuck Crapo, University of Alaska Fairbanks Cooperative Extension Service, Publication FNH-00325, is an excellent article!  I hadn't seen it before.  I rely on the recommendations of professionals like Chuck Crapo for the procedures I use when smoking fish and making sausage and jerky, so it's great to find another authoritative and useful article.

[dtjim]

ok i have the fish soaking, the salmon filets are less than an inch thick and the trout is maybe a 1/2'' im going for 3 to 4 hrs for  the salmon and half that for the trout and im gonna soak in water instead of just rinsing. Hopefully this time i wont be chugging a gallon of water in the middle of the night lol

[Habanero Smoker]

Great! You should have better results. You have a 13% brine or about 50° brine; so  once you get the brining times zeroed in you will be fine.