bubbagumps custom PID

bubbagump · February 06, 2006, 04:54:31 PM

<blockquote id="quote">quote:<hr height="1" noshade id="quote">If I had a SSR that required a vdc input I would have to provide that to the PID with a transfomer/converter.<hr height="1" noshade id="quote"></blockquote id="quote">

Hi Tom,

I'm not sure if that's even possible, I wouldn't think it is. Unless you're talking about using your PID relay to switch a DC power supply to feed the SSR. Even if it would work, it would probably end up being cheaper and less complicated to just order a new PID with an SSR output.

Bubbagump

TomG · February 06, 2006, 07:04:29 PM

Hi John,
<blockquote id="quote">quote:<hr height="1" noshade id="quote">Unless you're talking about using your PID relay to switch a DC power supply to feed the SSR. <hr height="1" noshade id="quote"></blockquote id="quote">

That is what I'm talking about. Both the Sanyou TAD 4 and the Coldfusion will switch(relay) either a dc or ac current. If dc is needed to activate a SSR a dc source must be provided to either PID. Your Red Lion apparently comes with an analog dc output option which will control a dc input SSR without a transformer/converter. Usually any SSR which specifies a dc input has a D in its model #, ac controlled SSRs have an A.

Bottom line: Anyone going the PID route must use a SSR specified for the appropriate input(control current). The Red Lion with the dc option has to be matched with a DC input SSR. The Coldfusion and Sanyou PID that I have, will require a dc converter to funtion with a dc SSR. They can, however be wired directly to an AC controlled SSR.

Just make sure the SSR matches your PID before you buy it.

nodak · February 07, 2006, 04:50:50 AM

I think I might be getting in over my head here[?] But I'm looking at these do I need anything else?? I thought I would mount it in it's own box and just plug the BS into it?????

What do you think of this PID[?]
http://auberins.com/index.php?main_page=product_info&products_id=3

This SSR[?]
http://auberins.com/index.php?main_page=product_info&products_id=9

This thermocoupler[?]
http://auberins.com/index.php?main_page=product_info&products_id=2

Do I need anything else[?]

Am I getting in over my head[?]

"If you're not living on the edge, You're taking up way too much room, so get the he-- out of my way."

gary_CO · February 07, 2006, 08:40:28 PM

I'd also be very interested in hearing opinions about Nodak's proposed setup. That looks like it's in my price range! I'm starting to get obsessed with trying to understand these things :)

At least this Auber Instruments place has a website and a way to email them. I sent a request for some on-line documentation on the controllers. It will be interesting to see when/if they respond.

Two things I wonder about in Nodak's idea is:
1) The quality of the TC. It looks like the same style as some others I've seen like the ColdFusion ones, and I've seen multiple comments about people trashing that style and using something different. But for only $5, I might be tempted to get one while I possibly wait for a custom-built one from someone else.
2) I wonder if that big of SSR is going to generate enough heat to require a heatsink? 480VAC output - shouldn't you use something for 110-120VAC? I wonder if that one has 120VAC in its operating range...

Looking forward to hearing opinions from people that understand this stuff.

Also should be interesting to see how many attempts it will take to get this posted, if at all [xx(]
Edit: I must have slipped through some seam in the universe cause it only took three tries to get this posted. It's been taking more tries than that just to read other's posts...

bubbagump · February 07, 2006, 10:31:55 PM

Sorry everyone for not responding sooner but I could not access the forum. Man, talk about frustrating.

Nodak - Right on. Everything you listed is correct. In fact, Auber Instruments is the place I recommended Smokehouse Rob get his from. I did happen to e-mail Aubers a couple of times with a few questions and they replied in within an hour both times. So that impressed me.

The only thing I would change if it were mine is the SSR. I installed a 10A and it is more than sufficient. Since I mounted it inside my smoke generator the the metal smoke generator acts like a giant heat sink. In addition, it is mounted directly above the ventilation slots on the side of the generator. My SSR barely gets warm. Even if you mount it in a separate box its doubtful it would get warm enough to warrant a heat sink

One other thing, you're not in over your head. There are plenty of people here willing to help you get yours set up. I'll be glad to help anyway I can. [:)]

Gary_CO - I can't speak about the reliability of their thermocouple, but you are right, for $5.00 it's worth a try.

The 480v rating on the SSR means it's capable of switching up to 480 volts.

ChefBill - I did not permanently mount my thermocouple inside my smoker, if I'm understanding your question correctly. I plug it in the back of my smoke generator and drop the probe down through the damper and hook it on one of my racks with the clip that came with my ET-73.

Also, since I don't have to babysit my smoker temp. anymore, I use two meat probes with my ET-73 and can monitor two cuts of meat at the same time.

One other thing Bill, unless you get a great deal on the Red Lion, which is the only reason I bought mine, you'll probably find it pretty expensive. If it is check out the one at Auber Instruments.

TomG - To clarify one thing, the DC SSR's will operate over a wide voltage range. Something like 4.5 - 32 volts DC. The Red Lion PID that I have puts out I think around 7 volts DC nominal and the Aubers I think is 12 volts DC.

Bubbagump

TomG · February 07, 2006, 11:16:05 PM

Nodak, if you're going to do a project box installation the only other things you will need are a box[:)], a small(4 lug)terminal bar, and a heavy duty extension cord(I used a cut in half, 10' air conditioner cord).

Also checkout Sam's earlier link. http://www.bradleysmoker.com/forum/topic.asp?TOPIC_ID=2552 You're wiring with the SSR drive PID will be slightly different but his diagram should give you a pretty good idea of what's going on.

Totally agree with BubbaG about the thermocouple, it's marginally adequate, but for $5 you can't go wrong.

gary_CO · February 07, 2006, 11:22:27 PM

Cool! What a great thread. I'm going to order from these Auber guys.

Kinda off-topic - now the only thing I need to contemplate is upgrading to a higher amp SSR and upgrading to one of their controllers that has the ramp/soak feature. The reason for that is I have a glass fusing kiln that runs at 220VAC and the ability to ramp and soak is very important for those kilns. Retail kiln controllers cost $450! Of course, I'd have to mount everything in an external box for transportability and making it idiot proof for using at 2 different voltages on the output.

Thanks everyone for educating a "PID dummy".

bubbagump · February 08, 2006, 12:08:13 AM

<blockquote id="quote">quote:<hr height="1" noshade id="quote">Originally posted by TomG
 Nodak, if you're going to do a project box installation the only other things you will need are a box[:)], a small(4 lug)terminal bar, and a heavy duty extension cord(I used a cut in half, 10' air conditioner cord).

Also checkout Sam's earlier link. http://www.bradleysmoker.com/forum/topic.asp?TOPIC_ID=2552 You're wiring with the SSR drive PID will be slightly different but his diagram should give you a pretty good idea of what's going on.

Totally agree with BubbaG about the thermocouple, it's marginally adequate, but for $5 you can't go wrong.
<hr height="1" noshade id="quote"></blockquote id="quote">

Very nice set up TG. Well done! [:)]

Bubbagump

iceman · February 08, 2006, 12:33:15 AM

Sweet job TG. One of these days I'll get around to it and will have to get a parts list from you.

gary_CO · February 08, 2006, 12:41:22 AM

Just thought I'd add that Auber Instruments already responded to my request for info. And I got a chance to peek at the users manual - it looks as thorough as any I've seen while researching these things...

bubbagump · February 08, 2006, 12:44:34 AM

<blockquote id="quote">quote:<hr height="1" noshade id="quote">Originally posted by gary_CO
 Just thought I'd add that Auber Instruments already responded to my request for info. And I got a chance to peek at the users manual - it looks as thorough as any I've seen while researching these things...
<hr height="1" noshade id="quote"></blockquote id="quote">

This PID also has auto tuning which makes programming a snap.[:D]

Bubbagump

gary_CO · February 08, 2006, 05:13:42 AM

I went ahead and ordered from http://www.auberins.com tonight. Based upon Bubbagump's comments, plus the same opinion from the bunch at Auber, I ordered the 10amp SSR. Auber has been very helpful with my questions.

I'll post info as I gather it (promptness of delivery, etc.).

Thanks again for all the info.

bubbagump · February 08, 2006, 05:17:33 AM

Great to hear, Gary. Good luck and have fun.

Bubbagump

nodak · February 08, 2006, 06:22:28 AM

I couldn't fall asleep, so I took the plung tonight too. Good luck to us gary_co.

"If you're not living on the edge, You're taking up way too much room, so get the he-- out of my way."

ChefBill · February 08, 2006, 12:33:15 PM

nodak, Gary CO,
Add me to the pot too. Decided to follow suit and order me a package too. Not bad for $74 w/shipping.

Had a real will wild hair while running thru all this. I love to cook and have a new convection oven for the kitchen.. Been thinking, Sure would be nice to incorporate one of these in the oven. Wouldn't be hard to do. All you'd have to do is bypass the regular oven thermostat control and let the PID control the temp; if the PID was off then the oven thermostat would be in control. [:)] You'd want to use a "Double Pole" 50amp SSR though to switch both legs of the 230 VAC to the bake element.[;)]

ChefBill
If you can eat it, you can smoke it.