MTQ + Cure #1 = Cure #2 Replacement?

[staticGenerator]

It's a Sunday afternoon, you've prepared all your ingredients for 6lbs of salami, and you are out of, lost or dropped in the sink of soapy dishwater your last envelope of cure #2.

Now, you happen to have some cure #1 and some Morton's Tender Quick.  Ok, I know - neither is a replacement for cure #2.  But follow me on this...

Cure #2 is comprised of the following ratio of ingredients:

Salt /Nitrite /Nitrate
89.75% /6.25% /4%

Cure #1 is comprised of the following ratio of ingredients:
Salt /Nitrite
93.75% /6.25%

MTQ is comprised of the following ingredients:
Salt /Nitrite /Nitrate
99% /.5% /.5%

If your recipe called for 7 grams of Cure #2, you could expect the following amounts of Nitrite and Nitrate to exist in your final recipe-
Nitrate = 7 * 4% = .28g
Nitrite = 7 * 6.25% = .4375g

So, you need .28g of Nitrate for your recipe.  To determine the total weight of MTQ needed to obtain .28g of Nitrate, you could use the following formula (this assumes that the percentage of Nitrate and Nitrite in MTQ are by weight and not volume):

Total MTQ Weight = Nitrate Needed/5%
MTQ = .28/.005 = 56g

So, 56g of MTQ will yield .28g of Nitrate.  It will also yield .28 grams of Nitrite and 55.4 grams of salt (MTQ indicates that it also contains sugar, but if you examine the ratio of sodium weight in table salt to the sodium weight in MTQ, you will find that MTQ sodium levels are 99.5% of that of table salt effectively making the remaining ingredient in MTQ 100% salt).

You still need additional Nitrite, as the MTQ does not meet the level of nitrite after the nitrate levels are reached.  You need a total of .4375g of nitrite for the recipe.  .4375 - .28 = .1575 still needed.

Total of Cure #1 Weight = Nitrite Needed/6.25%
Cure #1 = .1575/.0625 = 2.52g

Now, by adding the MTQ and Cure #1, you would have met the requirement for Nitrite and Nitrate.  Adding the Cure #1 also brings the total salt content up to 57.7625g.  If your recipe calls for at least this amount or more salt you should be OK.

Can anyone offer a challenge as to why this would not work as a replacement for Cure #2?

[NePaSmoKer]

What i see with 1 post is why would you post something like this and confuse folks who want to get into dry curing?

Total waste to a new member.

But hey if your formulation works for you then do it.

[staticGenerator]

What i see with 1 post is why would you post something like this and confuse folks who want to get into dry curing?

This is an actual scenario that happened to me, so I'm looking to validate the above post makes sense as a replacement for Cure #2, not to confuse anyone.  It's an emergency solution to get Nitrate into a dry cure. 

[SiFumar]

Why don't you just freeze the meat until you have the proper cure...just sayin..or make something else.

[staticGenerator]

Here's what Len Poli's website says about MTQ:

Morton® Tender Quick® mix contains salt, the main preserving agent; sugar, both sodium nitrate (0.5%) and sodium nitrite (0.5%). Since Morton cures are proprietary mixtures of salt, sugar, nitrite and nitrate, and propylene glycol there is no way of easily converting how much could be substituted in a formulation that uses cure #2.

Oh well, seemed like a good idea in theory at the time.  I guess the answer is no.

[Habanero Smoker]

Hi Static;

It is too early for me to do the math, but I applaud you for thinking and trying to find a solution to your problem. Not everyone on this forum is new to fermenting sausages. There are various levels of expertise. You started this thread with a questioon, not a decree so I see this as a general discussion.

As SiFumar stated it is best to freeze the meat until you get cure #2. When it comes to fermented sausage making, you don't want to miscalculate the amount of sodium nitrite, sodium nitrate, and salt.

You may want to recalculate the percentage of salt that is in TQ. I had calculated the amount of sodium in TQ, and my calculations came closer to approximately 70% salt, and approximately 29% sugar. But my calculations could be off.

[NePaSmoKer]

Morton's Tender Quick™ contains 0.5 sodium nitrite, 0.5 sodium nitrate, salt, sugar, and propylene glycol (for brined meats). They make no mention of how much extra salt, sugar, and propylene glycol.

What Is Propylene Glycol And Why You Should Avoid It. It is is a chemical found in personal care products that acts as a penetration enhancer that keeps products from melting in heat and/or freezing when it is cold. It is found in items such as shampoo, conditioner, soap, acne treatment, moisturizer, toothpaste, deodorant, nail polish, mascara; basically anything you could possibly use on your body, propylene glycol is in it. But why should you avoid propylene glycol?

For starters it alters the structure of the skin by allowing chemicals to penetrate deep beneath it while increasing their ability to reach the blood stream. Sounds lovely, right? So even if propylene glycol was good for you, it's main job is to help any other chemicals you come in contact with reach your bloodstream. However, there is even more to it than just that...

How Toxic is Propylene Glycol? According to the Environmental Working Group, propylene glycol can cause a whole host of problems. It is rated a 4 by them, which is categorized as a "moderate" health issue. It has been shown to be linked to cancer, developmental/reproductive issues, allergies/immunotoxicity, neurotoxicity and endocrine disruption. It has been found to provoke skin irritation and sensitization in humans as low as 2% concentration, while the industry review panel recommends cosmetics can contain up to 50% of the substance.

How to Spot Propylene Glycol
When looking at ingredient lists, you can look for names like 1,2-Dihydroxypropane; 2-Hydroxypropanol; Methylethy Glycol; 1,2-Propanediol; Propane-1,2-Diol.

I would in no way ever recommend mixing the two together for any reason whatsoever. Curing "pink salt" is not so expensive that it cannot be purchased in one or five pound amounts without having to pinch pennies by purchasing an "envelope" of the stuff. It doesn't spoil or weaken if kept out of the light and away from moisture. On the "Sunday afternoon" he ran out, he should have placed the meat into the refrigerator and ordered some on Monday by Fed-Ex "overnight" or some other light-speed carrier. Really, shouldn't any sausage maker have plenty of cure on hand if he is serious about the hobby?

My Take on it. So if you still want to mix the cures then thats your call.

[staticGenerator]

Hi Static;

It is too early for me to do the math, but I applaud you for thinking and trying to find a solution to your problem. Not everyone on this forum is new to fermenting sausages. There are various levels of expertise. You started this thread with a questioon, not a decree so I see this as a general discussion.

Hello Habs,

Thanks for recognizing that my intent in posting here was to get feedback on why the method I posted wouldn't work to bring my recipe up to the necessary levels of Sodium Nitrate.  Of course there a lot of other options of things that could be done instead.   I appreciate comments on both!

All other points aside, MTQ still contains a percentage of Nitrate and I think the method would work to reach those levels.  Whether one would choose to use it for that purpose is another talking point.

regarding the levels of salt in the TQ:
3.5g of TQ contains 1.34g sodium which is 38.29% sodium
6.0g of table salt contains 2.33g of sodium which is 38.83%

I assume the sodium measurement in the TQ includes the salt, nitrite and nitrate.  So, that leaves a .54% delta in the TQ to be ingredients not containing sodium - which leaves sugar and propylene glycol.

[staticGenerator]

Morton's Tender Quick™ contains 0.5 sodium nitrite, 0.5 sodium nitrate, salt, sugar, and propylene glycol (for brined meats). They make no mention of how much extra salt, sugar, and propylene glycol

NePa,

Thanks again for your experienced input.  Checking the MSDS for Sodium Nitrate and Propylene Glycol their profiles look nearly identical.  Actually the adverse effects of the sodium nitrate appears to be a little more broad!  I think the amount of the ingredient is the factor that would concern me at this point.

I think in my math above in reply to Habs shows that any ingredient not containing sodium will total .54%.  That should be the propylene glycol and sugar.

Since Morton continues to use PG in a product that has been on the market for years, I would be willing to assume that it is OK in the amount used in their recipe.

I do appreciate the research and feedback.

[Habanero Smoker]

Static,

I calculated the salt in a similar way; basing my calculation that 1 tablespoon of table salt contains 18 grams of sodium, and comparing that to the amount of sodium that was in a tablespoon of TQ. I'll recalculate it to see what I come up with this time; or maybe my figure for the amount of sodium in table salt is incorrect. It doesn't seem right that Morton would only add less than .54% sugar. Since it is the second ingredient listed, it has to at least equal or be a higher percentage then either the nitrite or nitrate.

The  propylene glycol must be less than .5% because it is the last ingredient listed, and it is used in TQ  to keep the mixture uniform. And I believe I read some where is was less then .1%.

[slowpoke]

Interesting,As I see it,You follow the exact measurements when you use cures,Period.Mixing and matching doesn't work,and there's no reall need to try.When it calls for Cure#1 only Cure#1 is used.Before I start any recipe I set all my ingredients out and check my amounts for all.Just me rambling.

[staticGenerator]

Just me rambling.

Thanks for your ramblings... :D

[viper125]

Sorry I see this as more problematic then help. It is easier for me to have all three here. And I keep plenty so no need to worry. But I don't like playing withe nitrates or nitrite levels. JMHO

[KyNola]

I'll give you a one word answer to the subject of your post. "MTQ + Cure #1 = Cure #2 Replacement?"

No.

[Habanero Smoker]

I can't find my original calculations, but this time I use the sodium levels for TQ and that of pickling salt (table salt) for the amount of sodium contained in 1/4 tsp.

TQ label reads 3/4 teaspoon of that product contains 1340mg of sodium; or 447mg per 1/4 teaspoon.

The label on my pickling salt reads 1/4 teaspoon contains 590mg.

The difference in sodium by volume is 447mg (TQ) / 590mg (Table salt) = .75 (75%)
Or by volume TQ has 3/4 the amount of sodium as pure pickling salt.

In the past my calculations came out to 70% salt. I wish I can find my old calculations to determine what is accounting for the difference.